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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Jun 06 2020, 11:13 pm
Since reopening 100 schools closed. There are 17,752 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in Israel as of Motzei Shabbos, a rise of 257 news cases since Thursday night. The number of active cases rose to 2,407 of whom 21 are ventilated. The death toll has risen to 295.

Do you still think their strict military lockdown Pesach time was a good idea? Why or why not?
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 12:22 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Since reopening 100 schools closed. There are 17,752 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in Israel as of Motzei Shabbos, a rise of 257 news cases since Thursday night. The number of active cases rose to 2,407 of whom 21 are ventilated. The death toll has risen to 295.

Do you still think their strict military lockdown Pesach time was a good idea? Why or why not?


Yes. Reopening too quickly was the mistake, especially schools.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 12:23 am
Isn't the spread now in an area that didn't have strict quarantine and lockdown laws?
I'm also curious if people that had it are getting sick again.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 1:01 am
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Isn't the spread now in an area that didn't have strict quarantine and lockdown laws?
I'm also curious if people that had it are getting sick again.


The quarantine affected the entire country. There was no difference between the different areas.

Tbe population that is currently affected is different to the population group mainly affected it the initial outbreak. At the moment it is focused around schools, and the main group affected are teenagers and their immediate family. The schools opened very quickly, which is part of the problem, but the main outbreak seems focused around schools which freely admit they did not even try to observe social distancing.

Specifically in Jerusalem, the outbreak around Pesach was mainly focused around chareidi areas, with a sprinkling in the chiloni neighbourhoods, now I am seeing exactly the reverse.
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 1:06 am
It was a mistake to open grades 4-10.
They should have just opened the lower grades (so parents can go to work) and grades 11 and 12 for bagrut.

Israeli kids in large groups are not going to observe social distancing, let's be real. In any case the classes are overcrowded.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 1:18 am
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Isn't the spread now in an area that didn't have strict quarantine and lockdown laws?
I'm also curious if people that had it are getting sick again.

Very few people here were sick initially (compared to large Jewish enclaves like in NY and London) and to get the all-clear you had to test negative twice within 48 hours. So I don’t no. I don’t think anyone has gotten sick again.
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essie14




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 1:55 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
It was a mistake to open grades 4-10.
They should have just opened the lower grades (so parents can go to work) and grades 11 and 12 for bagrut.

Israeli kids in large groups are not going to observe social distancing, let's be real. In any case the classes are overcrowded.

Exactly this. we pulled DS out of school after the first week back because he said the majority of the kids were not following the rules. Hes in other grade and his teachers were being accommodating about sending the assignments. He wasn't the only one.
And now his school was shut down on Friday because they realized it was probably only a matter of time til they had a case. Back to Zoom.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 1:57 am
chanchy123 wrote:
Very few people here were sick initially (compared to large Jewish enclaves like in NY and London) and to get the all-clear you had to test negative twice within 48 hours. So I don’t no. I don’t think anyone has gotten sick again.


Just clarifying, that initially you had to test negative twice with at least a 48 hour interval between tests. About a month ago that was changed to at least a three day interval. The first test takes place a minimum of twelve days after diagnosis.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 2:11 am
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Isn't the spread now in an area that didn't have strict quarantine and lockdown laws?
We all, no matter where we live, in Israel, had the same lockdown rules and quarantine rules. So that reasoning is mute.
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blessedflower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 2:26 am
We forget that the most important thing was to flatten the curve so that the hospitals don't get overpopulated. And Israel so far was successful. Eliminating the virus or waiting till it's gone, while I would love it, doesn't seem realistic at this point.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 2:52 am
If more people had gotten sick around Pesach time, it could have been a disaster. Some ICUs were already full. So I think that was a good idea, regardless of what's happening now.

As for what's happening now:

100 schools is about 2% of total Israeli schools (Israel has close to 5,000 schools total, not counting daycares). And the kids getting sick are in the lowest-risk age group. Most of their parents are low-risk as well.

I definitely understand parents who keep their kids home. And I would love to see schools being more careful.

But on a national level, this policy makes sense. If you think of it as having, say, 200 hospitalizations to "spend" on one thing or another, "buying" a full two months of actual, proper schooling for most of the nation's kids is a good deal.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 2:54 am
You have to look at this in the context of Israel's coronavirus policy as a whole, which was and remains: we can't stop the virus, but we can't afford to have it spread out of control, so our job is to slow it down as much as possible while allowing normal life to continue to the greatest extent possible.
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 5:54 am
ora_43 wrote:
If more people had gotten sick around Pesach time, it could have been a disaster. Some ICUs were already full. So I think that was a good idea, regardless of what's happening now.

As for what's happening now:

100 schools is about 2% of total Israeli schools (Israel has close to 5,000 schools total, not counting daycares). And the kids getting sick are in the lowest-risk age group. Most of their parents are low-risk as well.

I definitely understand parents who keep their kids home. And I would love to see schools being more careful.

But on a national level, this policy makes sense. If you think of it as having, say, 200 hospitalizations to "spend" on one thing or another, "buying" a full two months of actual, proper schooling for most of the nation's kids is a good deal.


I'm going to be extremely pedantic and point out that most of the kids who have Corona aren't actually sick with Corona, they just have it. I'm not sure about the exact statistic but I think they are now saying that about 4/5 people with Corona are asymptomatic.

I'm a nurse in an Israeli hospital and it bugs me that our computer system refers to every patient as "החולה" (translation "the sick person"). In my department the majority of patients aren't sick.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 5:58 am
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:


I'm a nurse in an Israeli hospital and it bugs me that our computer system refers to every patient as "החולה" (translation "the sick person"). In my department the majority of patients aren't sick.

So why are they hospitalized if they’re not sick? What happened to the corona hotels?
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blessedflower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:02 am
ora_43 wrote:
You have to look at this in the context of Israel's coronavirus policy as a whole, which was and remains: we can't stop the virus, but we can't afford to have it spread out of control, so our job is to slow it down as much as possible while allowing normal life to continue to the greatest extent possible.
so true what you said. Personally it scares me a little because after 3 months of stress I want to be behind it already and stop thinking about it. And I think many people are scared when they see the numbers are raising. But It's a natural thing for this to raise and fall until we are all immune to it.
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:08 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Since reopening 100 schools closed. There are 17,752 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in Israel as of Motzei Shabbos, a rise of 257 news cases since Thursday night. The number of active cases rose to 2,407 of whom 21 are ventilated. The death toll has risen to 295.

Do you still think their strict military lockdown Pesach time was a good idea? Why or why not?

Yes.
Because Purim without safety measure brought an increase in cases. So it was a bad idea not to do the lockdown already for Purim, but at least they did not want to repeat the same error for pessach. It might have been exagerated in some individual cases, but the general idea of not allowing people to mix was right.

I understand that it is hard to live with social distancing, even now, so as to keep the virus at bay.

Flattening the curve allowed Israel to contain its casualties. They have 295 fatalities, as compared to New Jersey, roughly same size and same population: 12'146.
So new Jersey has roughly 30 times the death toll.
This alone shows that Israel did the right thing, as opposed to New Jersey or New York...

Now you could argue: the virus will just take its death toll, sooner or later...
But if we delay the fatalities, we might find a vaccine and be safe.
Furthermore we might find better ways to treat the serious caes.
Furthermore, there will be no fatalities due to lack of hospital beds.

Furthermore: the earlier on lockdown measures are taken, the better their efficiency is...

It was proven, as a cautionary tale, by new York and New Jersey...
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:19 am
chanchy123 wrote:
So why are they hospitalized if they’re not sick? What happened to the corona hotels?


It's not a Corona unit. There are a lot of hospital departments that have mostly people who aren't "sick".
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:25 am
chanchy123 wrote:
So why are they hospitalized if they’re not sick? What happened to the corona hotels?

Being hospitalized for surgery does not make a person a חולה. Injury and illness are different. In English we call them a "patient". That can describe a perfectly healthy person as well as a deathly ill person.
It does make a difference to the caregiver if the person is classified as sick.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:27 am
blessedflower wrote:
so true what you said. Personally it scares me a little because after 3 months of stress I want to be behind it already and stop thinking about it. And I think many people are scared when they see the numbers are raising. But It's a natural thing for this to raise and fall until we are all immune to it.

Recent wide-scale serological tests showed that ~10x more people in Israel were exposed to this virus than there are recorded cases.

Still, even with those extra cases taken into account, only 2-3% of the population was exposed.

So it should be an interesting winter...
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:29 am
In kupat Cholim, where we are dealing with mild or asymptomatic cases, we tend to refer to them as מאובחני קורנה or חיובי קורונה.
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