Social Distancing/ Imamother

amother

Wheat

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:23 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

I knew this to be true and not only in London. I just don't have pateince to prove a reality to people that are trying to be PC.

What has PC to do with it?

You're saying that no one is being SD, we're all just lying to sound PC? Scratching Head

Just because some people are being lax (which seems to include everyone in your immediate circle of aqquaintances), doesn't mean that the rest of us who are still taking precautions are lying when we say what we're doing. Which happens to be almost everyone in MY circles.

Leahh

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:27 pm

Gmorning wrote:

I'm in Brooklyn too, and I totally hear your point. The way the powers-that-be are going about reopening is unfair and hypocritical.

But can we leave politics aside for a minute? I'm sure you agree that scientifically, it makes sense that reopening society with SD is a relatively easy way to limit a spike in the number of new cases. Why can't we do it?

I keep hearing people say, "I don't SD anymore cuz it's all political". In actuality, some of the guidelines of how to reopen are political. SDing isn't political - it's being done all over the world to slow the spread. Let's separate apples from oranges.

Now, if the reason people aren't SDing anymore is because it's inconvenient and we have no more patience, then let's just come out and say so...

People have to use common sense when going out and about. Where a mask in places that you might expose others to your germs or you get exposed to others germs. But it's not realistic to go to almost any grocery store and properly SD. The stores are just not big enough. Even in Target which is technically big enough, people aren't careful. Its too difficult. Thats where common sense and masks come in. If you're properly wearing a mask and sanitizing your hands SD is not as necessary. Sd by itself is protection against the virus but wearing masks by itself is too. The two together is an added measure but has been proven to not be necessary.
I, personally, would not wear a mask in public. I am a very low risk category and belive I have been exposed and have either gotten a mild form of the virus or none at all. However, I DO wear a mask when I go out to public places out of respect for others.

tigerwife

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:27 pm

Keep in mind that NJ/NJ, the states with the highest counts of the virus, kept their schools open at least a week after we were seriously hi with the spread of the virus. At this point they did flatten their curve- but the curve was extremely tall and narrow on the hypothetical graph, instead of safely low and wide (Having the same amount of cases but spread over a longer period of time in order to conserve hospital capacity). I don’t think anyone ever said that flattening the curve meant less people will get sick- only that less people will get sick at a time. When we were getting reports from Italy that hundreds of people were literally dying from lack of medical care (rather than the virus alone) because there just weren’t enough beds and health professionals to treat them, NY still had all their public schools and most private schools open.

What’s going on now is too little, too lately. NY paid greatly for the delay. To compare a city that was barely hit to a city with tens of thousands of cases a couple months ago is disingenuous.

My personal take on SD is that people who lived in their own home with their own yard were probably 90% more likely to continue to socially distance after Pesach than families who live in densely packed developments or apartment buildings with no private outdoor space.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:34 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

I'd like to know how you would react if everyone in your circle had antibodies and there were mass no SD protests going on at your doorstep.

Would you still keep SD just to be a good citizen?

The antibody tests are notoriously flawed, and no one knows how long antibodies last and/or protect against reinfection. So of course I would still SD.

I wear a mask outdoors whenever reasonably close to others. I do see a few people, as do my kids, but only outdoors, and only at a distance of several feet. This is very recent for us, BTW.

Gmorning

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:35 pm

Leahh wrote:

When I write SD, I mean staying 6 feet away from others when possible, and wearing masks when it isn't possible. Staying 6 feet away from others is a more effective way to stop the spread, and masks are the last resort for when you can't be 6 feet away.

Obviously, part of the "spirit" of SD is to try to limit time spent in crowded stores. If I go from one store to the next for 12 hours straight, pulling my mask on whenever someone passes close by, technically I am SDing. However, to really help stop the spread, we need to only go to crowded indoor places when it's essential. The corner groceries here are delivering, so I rarely have to go out shopping for groceries, and I'm postponing all non-essential purchases. Like, I still haven't gone to Amazing Savings to buy the imitation Natives for my kids...

SixOfWands

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:44 pm

Someone claimed that DiBlasio and Cuomo permitted mosques to be open, while treating shuls in the same manner as churches and other religious institutions, forcing them to close.

I'd like to see some evidence that mosques were allowed to be open.

Not that they WERE open. As dozens of women here admit that their shuls and schools closed only for short periods of time, and that they all proudly broke the law. Maybe Muslims did the same.

Leahh

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:47 pm

Gmorning wrote:

There are those that think staying 6 feet apart and wearing a mask are both necessary. Thanks for clarifying to your point.
Unfortunately, some groceries are not doing delivery and others that are have implemented limits and fees that make it difficult to get a delivery.
But yes, people should be limiting their time in an enclosed area where SD is not possible.

ora_43

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 2:51 pm

Leahh wrote:

I think I saw it mentioned on another thread here, but I believe the difference between US (specifically NY where I live) and Israel is because the US did not shut down as quickly or as severely as Israel did. While Israel had less cases and less deaths (which can be attributed to many things including the value of life there) they are possibly paying for that now. There was less exposure so there is less immunity and as they are trying to reopen they are seeing a resurgence because of that.

Israel still has significantly fewer new cases per day than NYC, and that's with contact tracing and testing. Also, with nearly all schools and businesses open.

I'm not saying NYC definitely doesn't have herd immunity - obviously it would be great if it did - but I wouldn't say a side-by-side comparison with Israel points in that direction, at this stage.

amother

Coral

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 3:16 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

I live In Toronto Canada. I am SD. Why wouldn’t we still SD?
I’ve been told that People in Flatbush and BP are carrying on as if nothing. Shopping, stores open (illegally), wedding halls open etc
I seriously don’t get you brooklyners who just don’t follow rules.
I find it very arrogant of you

I am always repulsed by arrogant out of towners having a loose mouth when it comes to NYC.

and who are you? the rule police?

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 3:57 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I am always repulsed by arrogant out of towners having a loose mouth when it comes to NYC.

and who are you? the rule police?

Excuse me????
You’re repulsed by ME whose arrogant?
Wow, just wow

I just called it how it is. The Brooklyners ARE behaving as if nothing. They don’t like to have anyone tell them what to do.
We follow the rules whether we want to or not. It’s for others safety, by the way....
Maybe it’s hard to hear the truth, but it’s the truth.
And like a poster said, what makes me the out of Towner and you the the centre of the universe??????

amother

Coral

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:37 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

And who made brooklyn "in town"? Thats what Id love to know.

you are right. Brooklyn is no longer in town. Follow the Relocation threads on imamother.

(frankly, I do not care for the terminology at all. In my experience as a Brooklynite I find that it is politically correct to bash us.
Now, this human nature is being shifted toward faster growing communities in the suburbs which will or maybe already does outnumber Brooklyn)

Gmorning

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 7:25 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Quote:

Now, if the reason people aren't SDing anymore is because it's inconvenient and we have no more patience...

...and the fact that in these communities nobody is seeing/hearing of people getting really sick/hospitalized. That's the main reason. I'm sure that if they start hearing of an uptick and more people getting sick, they would probably slow down again, start being more cautious. And that's what all states/countries are doing. Taking steps, see what happens. BP is just a step or 2 ahead.

Here's the problem. By the time the bolded will happen, it will be too late to stop the uptick!
I'm sure you don't want me quoting Cuomo, but there was one thing he said yesterday at his press conference that was correct: "These numbers can change in a week... Once they change you can't change them back that quickly".

Which states/countries eliminated SD and will only reinstate it once their numbers tick up again?

amother

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 8:48 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

If you also follow the Torahs rules so stringent, can I come to you for a bracha? The Torahs ruled are also for safety.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 11:44 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I SD because I want myself and my family to maximize the chances of emerging from this Covid free. My father-in-law hasn’t seen us even though he can now. He is high risk and I would hate for any of us to inadvertently pass on the virus to him. I think that although full SD is no longer a full requirement in most places, it makes sense to continue to follow it.

I am doing similar for similar reasons. Each family has to weigh the hardships of maintaining SD against the risks of stopping it. A family with 4 little kids in a small city apartment with young parents who have antibodies will probably decide (and I think most doctors would agree at this point) that the harm of maintaining strict SD outweighs the minimal risk involved if they stop SD. On the other hand, a family in the suburbs with a swing set or pool etc and 3 elementary school aged kids who are happy playing outdoors amongst themselves and maybe with another family, and who have elderly grandparents whom they want to see or an immunocompromised family member, will likely decide that it is worth it to maintain SD to limit the risk to the grandparents/immunocompromised person as much as possible. I am so tired of explaining to people why we are still being strict with SD when most people are not. I was tempted to make a spinoff of the please stop thread asking people to please stop gasping and when I tell them my kids are not going to day camp even though it is open.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 11:49 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

I'm in boro park and my entire family stays home. No one has come into the house or out since early March. I'm the designated shopper and go out once a week to the supermarket with mask and gloves. I have immunocompromised family members. There are many others locally doing the same. However, boro park is a place where people live very condensed so you will see certain streets, avenues - particularly near schools, shops, very full with absolutely no social distance- while there are still numerous people following the law and guidelines.

As far as doctors, not sure why people feel the need to justify lying to themselves, I've been in constant contact with numerous drs, adult and pediatric, and every single one of them has said the virus isn't over, young people can go out ONLY with masks and social distance. Anyone with vulnerable relatives should stay home. The community has chosen to not listen.

For all those going out without sd claiming their immune, the testing locally actually showed many don't have antibodies! And, if you do, the drs claim you still need to sd. Isn't your relative, neighbor worth a mask when ur in crowds? Even if you think its political, ur dr doesn't. If yr neighbor had cancer and wanted to try some nebulous alternative treatment that cost lots of money, wouldn't you move mountains to help them? why is it so hard to don a mask when ur I public in case theres a chance one person you know may get sick from you!?!

So, there you have it......

Can't like this enough! Thank you for saying this better than I could have. I am not in BP but the doctors where I am are saying the same thing.

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 11:56 pm

I live in the five towns and you can call me all the names you want but I am very done with SD. My kids go into neighbors house and neighbors come into mine. I have Shabbos guests etc. The only time I ever wear a mask is when I am inside a store. According to Achiezer which is the community medical advisary org - there has not been a new case here in over two weeks. We are very looking forward to daycamp and my kids will be going in carpool.