What are the guidelines when others don’t keep guidelines?!

fleetwood

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:42 am

tryinghard wrote:

Nope. They specifically said not to wear masks. But not because “we knew nothing”. It was because they were worried that dumb selfish Americans would run out and hoard masks and there would be none for healthcare workers. So they told us all not to wear masks. Political decision, not medical.

As for SD - the whole idea of “flattening the curve” was to prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. And giving us time to beef up our healthcare infrastructure if necessary. Nobody making decisions or recommendations in government or healthcare thinks that if we all SD perfectly we will eradicate this thing. It’s not possible at this stage. It’s about SLOWING it. Most politicians and doctors think nearly all of us will get it at one point or another.

Wrong. Three months ago we were told to go about our business and don't wear masks Bec they don't help. Within a few weeks once we knew more,everyone realized masks help. Just wear the mask!

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:43 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Should they be close together? And what about masks? This seems to be a big problem.
At least they should wear masks. Shul is NOT the same as a crowded store, unless you spend the whole time in the store talking in each other's faces. And spend upwards of an hour doing so.

4 yr olds aren’t wearing mask.

No 8 yr old girls is going to stay 6 ft from her friends at all times and wear a mask for 7 hours. Is that a realistic expectation?

And Our shuls legal capacity now is pretty close together.
I think a store is better then shul. Ppl are constantly moving. Ppl aren’t constantly talking causing excess alibis. You aren’t sitting next to another person for extended periods. Sitting on chairs and touching tables someone else jay touched.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:45 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Not where I live. It means weddings of 300 people no masks and SD.
Send out more busses then.

The government isn’t sending out more buses. And they are the ones making the rules.

Ppl over 60 should not be going to those weddings. If it was a smaller wedding they still shouldn’t go.

Honestly I feel like once our lives are open does the wedding make a difference.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:47 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I was that poster (re: bolded). Do your kids go near your mother? I am really struggling with this.

We are trying to minimize our exposure so our kids can see their grandparents, and honestly I have no problem with people letting their kids play with some neighbors. I guess my issue is more that my kids have been invited to numerous parties in backyards for the end of the school year and social distancing is not maintained and no one wears masks. It's very hard to tell kids they can't join their class and teachers. I understand the necessity of kids playing with neighbors, and each family can make their own decision (hopefully with their doctor's guidance), but these parties are not necessary and people do not seem to consider the fact that some families still wish to maintain SD.

Another issue I have is that people do not necessarily wear masks in stores even though it is required.

My parents didn’t want us to visit even when we were SD. They are too nervous. (We would have to travel 3 hrs and stand on porch and use basement bathroom - they would rather not)

Even we were all SDing I stayed very far from my older neighbors I visit. I still do. Wether I personall SD or not doesn’t Change that.

amother

Amber

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:50 am

fleetwood wrote:

Wrong. Three months ago we were told to go about our business and don't wear masks Bec they don't help. Within a few weeks once we knew more,everyone realized masks help. Just wear the mask!

For what it's worth, The WHO does not recommend masks for those w/o symptoms. That's now. With plenty of masks for everyone and more knowledge about the virus.

I mentioned on another thread that many, many doctors disagree with mask wearing for healthy individuals. Of course YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc. are all scrubbing the internet clean of such opinions. But if you look hard enough you will see from reliable sources that this mask wearing is almost definitely overkill and more than that can be outright dangerous. It's really terrible that we are living in a time where this information is being censored and kept from people.

tryinghard

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:57 am

fleetwood wrote:

Wrong. Three months ago we were told to go about our business and don't wear masks Bec they don't help. Within a few weeks once we knew more,everyone realized masks help. Just wear the mask!

Not according to Dr Fauci:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....3famp

amother

Gold

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:01 am

Most ppl I know are wearing masks to stores. I try to, I almost fainted a few times from wearing it. I am in early pregnancy and not feeling the greatest and the mask makes it soooo much worse. At this point I am trying to limit going to stores just so I don't need to wear a mask but I can't avoid it all the time. I literally feel like I can't breathe and gonna faint whenever I wear a mask for any amount of time. No difference if it's disposal or cloth or cotton for me...

In addition, I happen not to agree that this virus is worse than our mental health. I feel my kids mental health has been really affected by this whole situation and that's the reason why I will not social distance anymore. My kids will be going to camp as regular and I'm very happy about that. Some of my kids are hard enough as it is, and this situation has made them impossible.

I feel that we need to figure out what's good for our own families and anyone who is nervous should do what they need to do but no reason everybody has to be affected.

amother

Emerald

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:10 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

It sounds like you are being very responsible and understand that there is still a risk (unlike many people I encounter). Our doctors say that it is now safe for people to join with other families (meaning without SD within that group), including elderly, if everyone in both families (or even 3-4 families) is symptom-free and maintaining SD from others. That is what we are doing, including seeing one set of grandparents in person without SD. I just wish people would respect the fact that there are some people who still want to maintain SD. I am constantly backing away from people who come to close, and explaining to people why I can't give them a ride, why I am uncomfortable with class parties, and why I am not "done with corona" like everyone else.

ora_43

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:17 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

So if it kids are on top of each other.
And everyone is sharing bathrooms
And dr says that is okay but must still sd it doesn’t make sense.

It's a numbers game. Let's say you have 5 kids, who are each exposed to the viruses of another 30 kids.

Kids don't catch the virus as easily as adults (and may not transmit it as easily), so that's like being exposed to the viruses of around 75 adults, total.

If you go to the store once without a mask, take the bus once without a mask, and your dh goes to shul once without a mask - you've already doubled your exposure.

It's like any other risk - there's a whole grey area between "all" and "nothing," and usually it's best to live there. I'll ride in a car even though there's a risk of crashing, but I won't ride in a car with a drunk driver. In a normal year I wouldn't be slathering my hands with hand sanitizer, but I would definitely be washing them before eating or after riding the bus. And I'll send my kids to school, but I'll still keep our overall family exposure to the same 60 people rather than the normal level of 200-300 per week.

ora_43

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:23 am

On a societal level, if people are social distancing other than sending kids to school, the levels of virus transmission should stay more or less steady.

If there's no effort to practice social distancing... We already know how that looks. Exponential growth, overcrowded hospitals, unnecessary deaths.

Ora in town

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 3:23 pm

ora_43 wrote:

No, it does not work that way, because duration of exposure is relevant...

If 5 children are exposed each to 30 other children during 5-8 hours without protection, it's not the same as going to the store for 5-10 minutes without a mask...

Ora in town

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 3:28 pm

ora_43 wrote:

studies showed: In an society that was not exposed before, closing schools reduced the virus reproduction number by 1,(e.g. from 3 to 2 persons infected by each carrier).. And if this -1 happens to be the difference between 1,8 and 0,8, it is the critical difference between growth and containment...

causemommysaid

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:36 pm

fleetwood wrote:

Maybe she should live in a bubble ,Bec of people like you.🙄

the people who are immune compromised need to live in a bubble anyway.

Me letting my kids play with their friends isn't going to change that.

We still wear a mask in stores and SD with people who care. Its been months already and the kids are in camp. There is no reason not let them play.

I don't even know why I am bothering to answer. I don't owe you or anyone an explanation for my actions.

amother

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:59 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

One thing is immunocompromised people having to isolate themselves.

A very different thing is regular people who are still susceptible to the contagious virus that’s still around and dangerous to an unknown degree for each person affected.

It is deemed safe now to send kids to day camps if all adults in town wear masks indoors and keep to social distancing; I’ve seen and heard the opposite happening irl and on here.

Nobody has said yet it’s ok for adults to mingle without restrictions and send kids to day camps — yet this is what apparently is going to happen, actually, already happening with kids school siyumim, close distance back yard gatherings etc that already took place.

amother

Peach

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 12:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m in nj.
So today day camp is unsafe.
But on July 6 magically it will suddenly become safe?

amother

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 2:27 pm

I’m also in nj.

I’m not following your logic.
I’m not saying it’s not safe today but will be in two weeks.

I also don’t hear too many people saying it’s not safe now. Many act like coronavirus doesn’t apply to my area at all.

ora_43

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 3:07 pm

Ora in town wrote:

I wasn't picturing a 5 minute trip to the store. A bus ride can easily be 30 minutes, a trip to the grocery store can be 60 minutes. Anything over 15 is problematic.

The question isn't whether it's safe to open schools, the question is whether if school is open it makes sense to give up on any attempts to reduce exposure.