S/O the not shomer negiah thread

amother

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 2:41 am

If you were not, and I am only asking those who were not, shomer negiah with your DH when you were engaged, and your 18-24yo engaged DC asked you a straightforward question about it, would you tell them the truth or lie.
Obviously you would try to deflect, but if they were not having that, and assuming you don't answer their questions on a consistent bases by telling them that things are private, untzanua, and they can't ask you personal questions, how would you handle it?

FmrNewEnglander

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 2:48 am

I love this question.
I dont know the answer.
My first thought is -- if you were not shomer negiah -- because you just were not that religious back then -- I would perhaps tell the truth.
If you were not shomer negiah -- because it was difficult -- and you had moments of weakness -- Im not sure we need to confess our sins to our children. (You may want to -- to give them strength that its hard especially during engagement, I get that).
But...in the end...I dont know.

amother

Lime

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 2:53 am

Some things are not our kids' business. Sometimes we deserve our own space.

Now, if you were secular and lived with your dh beforehand and it was public knowledge, there's no point in hiding it. But if you made your own decisions in the privacy of your own space, then I would just say 'it's personal' and let it be.

I realize most teens would then understand that you did not keep SN. Some people might be tempted to lie here, if they highly value SN and don't want their teens thinking it's ok not to keep it. (after all, their parents turned out ok, so why not?)

amother

Cyan

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 3:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I would tell my DCs. Why make it up?

LovesHashem

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 3:49 am

I don't think it would come up. A teen may ask if they were aware you were not religious or grew up more modern (or are modern!).

Most teens with yeshivish parents who grew up yeshivish aren't going to ask that. It's like asking your parents if they ever ate treif, or did x aveirah. They have no reason to think it would ever happen.

Yes there are yeshivish people who don't keep shomer negiah, or struggle with it - I still think that most yeshivish people assume yeshivish people are keeping it so most teens would not ask.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 4:49 am

I would ask why they are asking, and I would also say that halacha is to keep SN, and that every person has to do their best to keep halacha even when it's very difficult.

Most questions like this are not just curiosity, there's a reason they want to know...if you answer the reason for the question then sometimes they don't care about the question itself.

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 6:58 am

Either you don't answer (by telling them you will not tell them, or joking), or you say the truth...

I don't think it's a good idea to present a false idealised image... because if they struggle, you should admit that you struggled too and not act aloof...

amother

Navy

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 7:05 am

Ora in town wrote:

I think both of those are the equivalent of admitting that you messed up.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 7:06 am

It depends on how sheltered your kids are, what you think they might have been exposed to, if their friends are dating, if you are a BT, how mature your kids are, and a million other things.

I told DD the truth, and I told her that looking back, it was not the right thing to do. I told her about the Torah perspective, and why the Torah wants us to wait. I said that she's old enough, that what she does is between her and Hashem.

I also told her that it was her decision, and that I won't be mad or look down on her if she decides not to be shomer. She's a big girl, and doesn't need me to police what she does with her body. (She already knew all the birds and bees stuff.)

DD is 17 and all of her friends are dating or getting married. B'H she's not interested at all, and feels like she needs to grow up more before she can make those kinds of decisions. Very Happy

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 7:46 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I think both of those are the equivalent of admitting that you messed up.

So what?
Isn't truthfulness a key to torah u mitzwot?

The contrary would be called "hypocrisy" and cause a big rip in the bedrock of the whole building!

amother

Coffee

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 7:52 am

If it was that you were part of society that did that way, the truth is great. If you slipped from taava in a society that doesn't that is private info between the 3 involved parties, not for public info including adult children. Unless they suffer tremendous guilt for having slipped themselves and sharing might help calm them but I still think it is oversharing.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 8:16 am

Ora in town wrote:

So what?
Isn't truthfulness a key to torah u mitzwot?

The contrary would be called "hypocrisy" and cause a big rip in the bedrock of the whole building!

I don't think what I wrote is a lie.

This is halacha, everyone does their very best. Sometimes a person thinks they did their best but they slip up anyways.

There were reasons that it was so hard for us and reasons that we didn't manage and IYH our kids will not suffer any of those hardships.

I don't think I need to share our life traumas with our kids any more than they sadly have already had to deal with the effects of those traumas.

Halacha is you do your best. But people slip up. You do your best. We did our best, too. Maybe it wasn't enough but it was the best we could do at the time...people who knew us and assumed that we were SN the entire time had no idea how we did it and were amazed at how big "tzadikim" we were (they assumed we were tzadikim because we seem that type...)

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 8:27 am

I would get some IRL input. There are a lot of people you can reach out to for this.
That said, here's my two cents. If a kid asks, and you think this is reflective of their struggles, you can tell them that you choose what you share and no answer does not imply anything. BUT you do have some insights into the struggle that you can share.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 8:33 am

Good point Navy!

Telling the truth does not mean no boundaries or answering any questions kids may have -- healthy boundaries are key and not everything is meant to be shared with your children.

I would ask why they are asking and discuss the topic. Would not make it ok for the kids to ask us certain personal questions that cross a boundary would always tell the truth and would answer the real question they are asking which is a discussion of halacha and the like while acknowledging if its about them making a mistake we have teshuva for a reason.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 9:08 am

Chickensoupprof wrote:

I will tell them, it’s no secret I lived a non shomer life most of my live

I think this is the difference.

If your community and lifestyle are okay with not being SN that's different than if the community and lifestyle are super strict about boys/girls and SN is taken for granted.

We belong to the latter group....if we belonged to the former I don't think I'd have an issue sharing.