Manipulative child

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:20 pm

crust wrote:

Lilies, the only issue I have is that whenever I hear a person calling a child manipulative, the parent is the one that's manipulative or controlling.
A professional calling it that way is a whole new level.

I have seen children that are manipulative or children that are real bullies all the the way through their childhood years.
But somehow, their parents seem to think the kid is ok. Or, they think that they have a perfect grip on that child.
They do not go to proffesionals.

It's true that sometimes the term "manipulative" is used to denigrate a child when the child is just trying to get their needs met... and they cannot in a straight manner.

That's why I appreciated Magenta's answer so much. Because she really proposes an approach where primarily the child's needs should be met, and she shows to her child through her actions that there is no need to be manipulative.

I just met a very manipulative girl, 7 years old... but it's the situation she lives in that teaches her to be manipulative. So to address the manipulation I would first address her situation, and hope that the manipulation will go away once the situation normalises, and doesn't force her any more to lie, to deceive, to overcome bad conscience and to live a double life...

As for children endowed with a flourishing fantasy, who do not always distinguish fact from fiction, I would not call them manipulators...or liars... I'd rather encourage them to be creative with their fiction, write it down, tell stories, but mark it as fiction...

Last edited by Ora in town on Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:37 pm

lilies wrote:

Well there's your biggest clue.
Trauma before ADHD.
Please consider therapy.

We have the appointment already for the next assessment, it's in a few weeks, so we'll see how it goes, and go from there.

Therapy right now is complicated because of the lockdowns and longer times for insurance bureaucracy. (The bureaucracy for ADHD was done before corona, we had everything set and an appointment in April, but it got pushed off because of the outbreak.) So we'll look into it but it'll have to be ADHD first, trauma second.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:58 pm

I haven't read this thread beyond the OP's post, but I did just want to say that as a mom of an explosive child who is incredibly 'manipulative' (and has been mis/labeled as being ADHD and ODD), it has been a journey (and a lot of therapy and support for me the mom!) to realize what Dr. Ross Greene teaches in his book about explosive children:

CHILDREN ARE NEVER MANIPULATIVE, THEY ARE JUST DOING THE BEST THEY CAN TO COMPENSATE FOR A LACK OF SKILL(S) THEY ARE MISSING (biologically or just unlearned).

And I say this as a mother of a child who has destroyed property, bullies mercilessly, has very few natural empathetic skills and seemingly manipulates all the adults in their life to her will ALL HER LIFE SO FAR. It has taken years of teaching and learning (and boy do we still have a ways to go!) to identify which skills she was born without/has low levels of (empathy, certain social skills, ability to tolerate boredom, emotional regulation, executive functioning...) and learn how to teach them to her and integrate them into her life (with or without medication, that's a whole 'nother story.) and we are getting there thank Gd! I never thought we would.

If a doctor calls your child manipulative, I would emphatically and respectfully suggest you consult another practitioner for other viewpoints before committing to this practitioner's course of care. You may also find Ross Greene's guide to explosive children, Kazdan's method, and the guide to highly emotional children useful (still reading all of them but nearly cried to see that I'm not alone and that there are children like my child and families like ours bewildered and confused)

Dr. Robyn Koslowitz in Lakewood may also be able to help you. I found her helpful.

HUGS AND HANG IN THERE very few people will understand you but many will judge you. Ignore them and get the support you need. Hashem gave you this child because only you can help him/her, despite how impossible it may seem now. HUGS HUGS HUGS

posting anon because my kid deserves anonymity

pause

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 6:06 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Well said. Applause

amother

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 12:56 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

I'm going to concede that for a more challenging child it is less than helpful to think of him as manipulative.
For more typical children though like my son it's not a label but an issue that needs dealing with head on. My son does not have ADHD or anxiety just a touch of SPD and defiance and lots of energy. Since he doesn't have special needs or therapies, I'll bow out of this discussion. I'm grateful for that luxury.

Your post was very helpful and so far as we know DC has no special needs and is not doing any special therapies. You can stay. Smile

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 2:26 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

I think the term "manipulative" as such is not the problem.

The problem is how adults react to manipulative behavior.

I completely agree with you that adults should recognise that children, when they are manipulative, have good reasons to act that way. Either because they cannot get their needs met in any other way, or because they were put in a situation that prompts them to be manipulative or because the adults in their life show them how to be manipulative, etc.

Magenta presented a perfect way of positive parenting while recognising that her child is manipulative.

This goes to show that the term "manipulative" is not the problem, and that there is no need to censor language.

What is important is to recongnise the underlying need that prompts manipulative behaviour...