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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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Rappel

Tue, Jun 30 2020, 12:25 pm

Slategray - if someone can verify that you're not a serial killer, want to come over and visit, either during the week or for a Shabbat? You can see what it's like here for yourself.

ETA - this invitation is open to anyone here. C'mon out and let's be friends Smile

sara_s

Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:19 pm

Rappel wrote:

OP, I passed through Shaalvim today, and it's a really nice yishuv right next toModiin. I know nothing about pricing, but I was impressed by the people and atmosphere I met there.

Houses there cost 3 million NIS plus, and I imagine rent is equally high.

amother

Sat, Jul 04 2020, 11:35 pm

Op back here again...
Tell me if I’m wrong but....
My mom keeps on emailing me articles about olim. Yes, I know now more olim want to move to israel, but it’s different for everyone. So I read the article she sent me. I responded back and wrote to her that the article is just another example of a family of olim that moved with money. They lived comfortably in LI and decided to move to israel in the 90s. I keep on telling my mom that our situation is different, we don’t really have savings. I didn’t say I don’t want to move to israel, I want to move if it’s possible for us. She says she can help with the move but she’s not realizing what’s she’s asking. I need to find out an estimate of how much just the whole move would cost us and then see from there. So my mom came to the conclusion that my husband and I don’t want to move to israel 🙄 which was very unreasonable for her to say while I told her I already started the process with nefesh. Am I being too harsh to my mom? Is she right that there are poor olim moving to israel? I really don’t know, but from what I’ve seen and heard, olim with families usually have savings to move to another country.

Anyway, I know if we will make this happen, my husband will make boundaries and really doesn’t want to be close to my mom because of how selfish she is, but he says I can have a relationship with her. So on the top of this, I also have stress from my mom!

DrMom

Sat, Jul 04 2020, 11:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It is definitely recommended to come with savings.

Draw up a budget and ask her to cover the difference.

Success10

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 2:10 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think this post makes it clear that your potential aliyah is motivated almost exclusively by wanting to please your mom. I think you need to take a moment to appreciate the massive ocean between you and mom, and how much you'd be risking if you move near her. She is not healthy, and neither is your desire to please her to this extent. If you are in the same country, things can get codependent, and fast. It might be obvious that I'm speaking from experience here. Please, at the very least, speak to a rav or mentor in real life before going any further with the aliyah. I wrote this on page one of this thread: this is less about the money and more about your shalom bayis and mental health. Proceed with caution.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 2:28 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think Success10 hit the nail on the head.

From this post it sounds like the main motive for aliya is to get your mother to lay off you. She won't do that - things will just get worse.

My mother would love for me to move back to North America - even if we were a 12-hour drive away, even if we weren't in the same country as her - because it would make things easier *for her*. She would have more of her kids and grandkids around. It would be easier for her to guilt us into coming to events, coming for chagim, for her to "just stop by." I am eternally grateful to have an ocean between us.

Your mother doesn't sound healthy. The relationship between you doesn't sound healthy. It sounds like the existing boundaries that you've already set are costing you a LOT of mental energy. You set boundaries but beat yourself up over them, wondering if you're being "too harsh." No. You are the CHILD. Your MOTHER is being too harsh. She is being too pushy. You have a life of your own. You have a family to take care of.

Like you said your mother doesn't realize the depth of the financial commitment she has "promised" you. And maybe she does realize, but she is the type to flake and not really follow through? I don't know her, you do. But if you think she can't keep that commitment then you DON'T COME, regardless of whether she promises you the moon or a fancy villa.

Your husband sounds like a good man. He is setting his boundaries but lets you run the relationship with your mother. I think, though, that you need to take a step back and rethink aliya, unless she and you are living in opposite ends of the country - like her in Mitzpeh Ramon and you in Kiryat Shmonah.

Honestly in your place I would either ignore the emails or email back, "cool article, thanks."

Do you have a therapist? Or maybe a rav who knows the back story? Can you get a more professional opinion on whether moving to Israel will be healthy for you right now?

amother

cornflower

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 2:32 am

DrMom wrote:

It is definitely recommended to come with savings.

Draw up a budget and ask her to cover the difference.

I don't think that's a good idea. It will mean she "owes" her mother and is "obligated" to settle, at least initially, where her mother wants, and violate her own boundaries in order not to be "ungrateful" for the help her mother gave her.

With parents like OP described, it's best not to give them any leverage to push you into things.

Success10

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 2:34 am

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

I also think it might pan out in a way that OP accepts and asks for the money up front and then mom says "Don't worry, I'll give you the money when you get here" and then.....

amother

cornflower

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 2:40 am

Success10 wrote:

I also think it might pan out in a way that OP accepts and asks for the money up front and then mom says "Don't worry, I'll give you the money when you get here" and then.....

Could be. I was banking on OP insisting that she see the money in her account before she comes. I don't see how she could know otherwise, 100%, that she'd actually receive the money, and it sounds like that is what's making her most nervous...

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 7:36 am

Op I have the feeling you are breaking your family for your difficult mother!!
Be strong and tell her you have to stay in America!!

amother

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 8:32 am

Thank you for all the support.
I’m aware my mom isn’t healthy and as a result it isn’t healthy for me. Thank Gd I have my same husband who sees it from his view. My mom is pressuring me and I can see why most of you think I’d move only because of her. However, I was born in Israel and really wanted to move a long time ago but I’m aware that my husband didn’t feel the same way so we didn’t move. Now as the kids are a little older, he is seeing why it would be better for them to be in israel. But for us, especially for him, it will be difficult. If my mom wasn’t in the picture, I’d probably have less pressure to move but I’ve always felt that I want to move. In a way, I can see the other reasons why she is pressuring.. Like the kids are getting older and it will get harder to move to israel. Also, unless I change to a high paying career, I can’t see how in the future we will have more savings, lots of our money is going for yeshiva. So I do see the reason why she wants me to move, besides the fact she wants to be close to me and the grandkids.

My mom has been helping slightly with the yeshiva tuition, I know she will pay for the move even before going to israel, if she knows we are serious about moving, that’s not an issue. However, I really want to break free from her. I don’t know how, but once we get to israel and b”h find jobs, I want us to start paying for rent etc on our own..,, I really don’t want my mom’s money because I’ll always feel like I owe her.

My husband is now ok about moving but I know he isn’t thrilled. My mom was very lucky because my dad is the one who did everything... taking care of the move... and they both wanted to move. I’ll always feel like I’m forcing my husband. He isn’t the way my dad was. He was never really motivated with big plans, he even doesn’t want to join the nefesh meeting with an advisor. It will be me doing everything and I feel very stressed as a result. I know if I won’t be the one initiating everything, moving to Israel will never happen. I know he can adapt anywhere. But I also know it won’t be easy.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 10:03 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's clear that you want to move because you long to be in Israel, not just because of your mom. But if it's hard for you to set boundaries now, it will be 100 times harder when you are closer to her. Meaning, even though you long for Israel, it might still be better for you to put that aside in favor of maintaining the physical distance between yourself and your mother. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer.

About yeshiva tuition, it really depends where you will be sending here in Israel, because it's not exactly cheap.

If you want to break free the first thing you need to do is break the bonds in your mind. Right now you take her money so you feel like you owe her. You need to get into a place where even if you take her money, you don't feel like you owe her.

About your husband, like many people noted earlier, he really needs to be on board. I "pushed" my husband into aliya and ten years later he still isn't 100% happy here and it comes up relatively often. It's probably one of the biggest issues in our marriage. We are BH lucky that we hardly have any major issues (I think it is that and one other) but if things are not 100% smooth then it is a big risk. Even today I'm not sure I should've pushed him into this. I'll never know the right answer but for people contemplating similar moves in the future, I would say think very very very hard about it and I would never suggest forcing a spouse into aliya, especially when there are already kids in the picture and you're already somewhat settled.

If you do move to Israel, I can't repeat this enough, put a nice few hours' drive between you and your mother. Yes, even if that means not moving to the center. There are many lovely communities, with Anglos and good housing prices and schools, that are far from the center and far from your mother. Please seriously consider them, and do not make things even worse for yourself. Already the cards are stacked against you, you don't need to make things even more difficult and place yourself in a situation where you'll almost certainly end up caving to the pressure and then regretting it...

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 6:24 pm

Op your husband and children want to stay.And you know it will be hard for them
So why do you think it's imperative to make alya? What's so good in Israel for your family!?

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 6:31 pm

You sound very torn about aliyah.

Maybe counterintuitive -- Take your mother out of the picture.

Do you want to move? Do you think it best for your husband, you, your children you all as a family?

And then make a clean and clear decision.

The whole emotional thing with your mother is just clouding it for you imho.

One step at a time. If you want to move then you will decide where to live and how best to handle the boundaries.

Are you in touch with your friends from growing up there? Get in touch, get a handle on how things are...

amother

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 7:59 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

About your husband, like many people noted earlier, he really needs to be on board. I "pushed" my husband into aliya and ten years later he still isn't 100% happy here and it comes up relatively often. It's probably one of the biggest issues in our marriage. We are BH lucky that we hardly have any major issues (I think it is that and one other) but if things are not 100% smooth then it is a big risk. Even today I'm not sure I should've pushed him into this. I'll never know the right answer but for people contemplating similar moves in the future, I would say think very very very hard about it and I would never suggest forcing a spouse into aliya, especially when there are already kids in the picture and you're already somewhat settled.

If you do move to Israel, I can't repeat this enough, put a nice few hours' drive between you and your mother. Yes, even if that means not moving to the center. There are many lovely communities, with Anglos and good housing prices and schools, that are far from the center and far from your mother. Please seriously consider them, and do not make things even worse for yourself. Already the cards are stacked against you, you don't need to make things even more difficult and place yourself in a situation where you'll almost certainly end up caving to the pressure and then regretting it...

This is what I worry about. I'm not worried as much about my kids. They are still young and they will adapt quickly to the new environment. They would react the same way if I told them we are moving our of NYC to a new neighborhood because they are used to their school and has been in the same school for 4 years.
My husband, in the other hand, might not get used to the new environment. I know he loves me and the kids and will do everything to keep the house happy, but I'm worried that I'm "forcing him". Today he told me that he will support me with "Plan A (to move to Israel)" and help out. But then he said that he can't think of any good things that Israel has! That made me mad because first he told me he is into the idea of moving to Israel, but then he is complaining that he can't see anything good in Israel ?! I can't move with a negative attitude. I know it's different for him, but I also know that we can make it work with a positive attitude. I grew up in Israel, I'm not trying to be selfish, I'm thinking about the kids and what's best for them and I really feel like over here they won't have the same childhood like what I had in Israel. It's not the same. But if it won't work out, of course I'll have to make it work over here, even though I always felt like the USA was my second home, not my first.

amother

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 8:04 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

I think if my mom was out of the picture, I would probably not feel as stressful. I would probably not pressure my husband as much about moving to Israel. However, my mom has a point...the longer we stay in NYC, the older the kids will get and the harder it will be to move. I'm not sure how much more money we would have in savings if we'd consider staying here a few more years, because we would still be paying yeshiva tuition, unless I decide to go back to school and get a better degree (but that's more money to pay for).

I know I sound like a ping pong, I've been going back to this topic back and forth also at home with my husband. If he was 100% about moving to Israel with a positive spirit, I wouldn't have to think so much, I'd do everything in my power to move to Israel because that is my first choice. We don't have much savings but we can make it work. When I first got married, my husband and I went to a nefesh meeting and he seemed very much agreeable to that idea to move to Israel back then. Fast forward, years passed and a few kids were born... and he got a comfortable job (not high paying, but he likes his job) and then he lost his desire to move to Israel. A few months ago, he realized that it's the best place for the kids, but he still tells me that he won't feel comfortable and that's not his first choice to move to. So it's hard...

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jul 05 2020, 8:10 pm

Yes very hard to do it if your spouse is not fully on board.

Would you be willing to tell him its up to him? And then let him own his decision.

amother

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:02 am

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

Would you be willing to tell him its up to him? And then let him own his decision.

We would stay here if it was his decision and then I don’t think moving to israel would ever happen as we stay longer. I’m the one who has to plan everything for the family, I’d have to then look for a cheaper Jewish community to live in and we would still have to move somewhere else here and find another school for the kids if we go for a bigger apartment.

amother

cornflower

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:13 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Are you the one who has to plan everything, or the one who has to plan everything that has to do with moving away from where you live now?

There's a difference.

Success10

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I grew up in Israel, I'm not trying to be selfish, I'm thinking about the kids and what's best for them and I really feel like over here they won't have the same childhood like what I had in Israel. It's not the same.

Why do you think the kids will have a better childhood in Israel? Why is it so important to you that the kids have "the same childhood like what you had in Israel"?

In an OOT community in America, there is amazing quality of life, trees, grass and low crime rates. None of the big city pressure to keep up with the gashmiyus.

I live in Israel, I love it, trust me I know all it has to offer, but I just want to understand what you think your kids are missing, and if you might just be pushing on to them something that's not really in their best interest.

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