Spinoff- struggling but still supporting married kids learn?

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 8:16 pm

While clearly some get married to learners without support, I know of many girls
Who were rejected because the boys parents only wanted to work with girls
Whose parents promised support.

The parents struggling to support their kollel kids are doing it to ensure their dds
Can get married. If they believe in a boy learning and the girl was taught this
Her entire life, then she wouldnt be a proper fit for a working guy.

I dont call this peer pressure. It's the reality that boys' families demand support.
So, majority demand it.

My aunt and uncle demanded support for their 3 learning sons, but they
Said they couldn't support their dd who wanted a learning boy.
Their dd was almost engaged when this demand for support was a "make it or break it"
For the shidduch.
They were still demanding support for their sons because it's how the system is set up, so
They could "get away with this hypocrisy ".

Those of you who were able to marry learners without your parents
Promising support, are lucky. This is not the norm.

amother

Coral

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 8:34 pm

I'm a kollel wife, supporting my husband in learning without parental support for close to 8 years BH! I'm super grateful for every year that we manage this way Smile

Edited to add: The only program we get is subsidized Jersey Care for our kids and I don't have a degree.

How we manage? Hmmm...that's a good question. We definitely live simply but not crazy simply.

amother

Mint

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 9:35 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Things have changed. Some parents won't take people seriously if the parents say, we can't help but dd has some savings and a decent (no, not 50K, sorry) job and this is enough for them to figure it out.

Are u saying 50k expectation is high or low? Because hopefully a few years down the line a Secratary salary won’t be enough...

amother

Coral

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 10:53 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Are u saying 50k expectation is high or low? Because hopefully a few years down the line a Secratary salary won’t be enough...

Yes, I was wondering the same.

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 06 2020, 11:28 pm

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

*Not manhattan nyc but I didn't want to say which part of the city. Rent on average for a 1 bedroom is 15-1600 maybe 17-18 if its bigger and nicer.

A- we live in 1 bedrooms for a long time!
B- we have good jobs with degrees. (Computer programming, actuary, PA, NP, even regular nurses here do well, BCBA, nyc doe pays well for speech and special ed + insurance, many people go for specialized degrees at night) Yes there will always be teachers and their parents might be helping them. Most probably not with a check a month - more like they pay for stuff).
C- On my parents insurance...

Sounds like Chofetz Chaim / Queens.
But to the amother who said she can’t imagine it, I know quite a few in Brooklyn who are supporting their husbands with minimal or no parental support.

amother

Brown

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 2:31 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

And they didn't let her get engaged because they didn't want to support them?

amother

Brown

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 2:35 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

I see. I was partially surprised because of your age as many well paid professions (PA, NP, etc) would require more schooling.

amother

Brown

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 2:37 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Sounds like Chofetz Chaim / Queens.
But to the amother who said she can’t imagine it, I know quite a few in Brooklyn who are supporting their husbands with minimal or no parental support.

With kids? How, given Brooklyn rents? Is it even possible to find a $1,600 one bedroom apartment (not a basement) in BP, Flatbush, Marine Park, or Crown Heights?

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:22 am

In marine park it is possible to get a one bedroom for 1,500 in the rent controlled buildings on kngs highway.

I am married 5 years with dh in kollel, we dealt with infertility and I support him without any help from parent/inlaws other then them hosting us for shabbos , and when we are tight we go more often. We live in israel.

We live simply - but we always have what we need. I work 2 jobs (one from home at night when my baby is asleep). Dh does side jobs during bein hazmanim for extra income. We have 50,000 nis in savings so far and we bought an apartment from my savings + wedding gifts when we got married -it has increased in value by 200,000 nis so far. We give more then maaser and have savings account for our dd.
It is possible- just hard

amother

White

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 8:10 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I'm a kollel wife, supporting my husband in learning without parental support for close to 8 years BH! I'm super grateful for every year that we manage this way Smile

Edited to add: The only program we get is subsidized Jersey Care for our kids and I don't have a degree.

How we manage? Hmmm...that's a good question. We definitely live simply but not crazy simply.

What do you do?

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 8:11 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

While clearly some get married to learners without support, I know of many girls
Who were rejected because the boys parents only wanted to work with girls
Whose parents promised support.

My DD has a friend who deposited her earnings for 2 years into an account in her parents' name. She then married a learning boy whose parents were demanding support. Her parents are "supporting" her from this money.

She could've just kept her money in her own name and supported her husband with her salary plus her savings as necessary...but this ploy was necessary for that type of shidduch.

DH and I would prefer a straight shidduch for our child, where we are upfront about what we will and won't do, and DD keeps her savings herself.

But to each his own....

amother

Purple

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 8:15 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Are u saying 50k expectation is high or low? Because hopefully a few years down the line a Secratary salary won’t be enough...

I was talking to a rebbi who was a reference for a boy and he said that if my dd wasn't making 50k that wasn't enough to manage. I hope he was not representative of this yeshiva. (No, not BMG but no 20 questions.)

amother

Mint

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 9:18 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

While I don’t think boys should demand support. If you want a long term Learner, your parents are not supporting, then 50k isn’t getting you too far.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 9:18 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

I see. I was partially surprised because of your age as many well paid professions (PA, NP, etc) would require more schooling.

You're right. I did get married on the younger end here. But nowadays it's not so hard to finish school quickly. Most girls have degrees by 21-23. Sometimes they have saved enough to live on for one year while they finish their degree. Parents (not specifically the girls side) might help out during that time too.

(NP specifically is a job you get after being a regular nurse and a bunch of wives now are going to school for that, on top of working. BCBA is also like that or any other specialized special ed degree - for example working with the blind).

amother

Olive

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 9:22 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

This is very impressive and good for you!!
I can't imagine, however, having a job at 23 that could cover NYC rent (assuming in a frum neighborhood), kids' diapers/babysitters/daycare, food, bills, insurance, etc.

Why not?
Aren't there families where the DH works and the wife is a sahm (and still sends kids to daycare, takes cleaning help, youngest is 5) or works very part time. It’s not unusual.
Some wives make just as much as working men.

I know many young couples in Lakewood with no regular support - but the parents do try to help out as they can. But it wasn’t promised up front. In most cases Both sides are Simpler yeshivish types and the couples can live with less.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 9:25 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

With kids? How, given Brooklyn rents? Is it even possible to find a $1,600 one bedroom apartment (not a basement) in BP, Flatbush, Marine Park, or Crown Heights?

She's right - it's Queens. The 15-1600 ones I'm talking about are basements/walk ins. And are really small. Some people are very lucky and live in ones that are 13-14 if they have been living here for 7 years already. Bear in mind though they can have 3 kids in there and rent goes up when they move out. I don't know building prices well but I think you can get a bedroom for 1650-17 though I may be wrong, I heard those numbers a few years ago.

amother

Coral

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 11:14 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

What do you do?

I'd prefer not to share too many identifying details online. Honestly, no fancy job - somehow Hashem makes it work out for us. But we live simply - I do without a lot of things that people take for granted.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 11:41 am

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

It can work when the kids are little. But for someone with a large family that included older kids, expenses are way higher and frankly, difficult to manage on just 1 income unless the breadwinner has a very high powered job or big business, or they get some sort of help. (Which may not be a specific set amount, but could be purchasing clothes, chipping in to cover the cost of a bris or bar mitzvah, paying for camp, etc.) That's why a lot of men start to look for jobs in their 30s, and there have certainly been many threads here discussing the difficulties in that.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 11:52 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

In the community that the amother above said she's in, where they do not get support, my understanding is that they do not learn past a certain number of years. I don't know the number, but let's say they learn for five to seven years - that's do-able on one income.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 12:12 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

I know those communities. When it comes down to it, many many of the husbands struggle to enter the working world. They simply aren't prepared or wait too long. Some make the transition but I know many where the husbands are in their 40s, and either ended up doing little part time jobs or couldn't break in anywhere. Or they couldn't afford to start college because they needed the income now, so they are stuck in a low end job.
If they have a family business or connections, or a certain personality, it helps.
Sure, when they married, they said 5-7 years, or "as long as they could" but IRL, that's a bit simplistic.