Spinoff- struggling but still supporting married kids learn?

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 12:21 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I know those communities. When it comes down to it, many many of the husbands struggle to enter the working world. They simply aren't prepared or wait too long. Some make the transition but I know many where the husbands are in their 40s, and either ended up doing little part time jobs or couldn't break in anywhere. Or they couldn't afford to start college because they needed the income now, so they are stuck in a low end job.
If they have a family business or connections, or a certain personality, it helps.

Most of our husbands though don't attempt to enter the workforce as we go into klei kodesh. Not that it pays well so it is important that we have good jobs to be able to put money away for a down payment out of town.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 12:26 pm

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Do you know how many applicants there are for those jobs???
Unless you go to an extremely out of town oot place (where the school is tiny and probably coed) they probably have dozens per job. A school board member once mentioned to a friend of mine, that a regular rebbe position in their oot city had 75 applicants. All guys in kollel, looking for their first job. You need connections.
Some of the men I am referring to planned to go into those jobs (even if they didn't have the personality to be successful at it). It didn't work out for them.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 12:38 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

You said you knew the community we were refferring to but I think you meant the overall kollel community. We're in Queens (Chofetz Chaim). We actually create our own jobs by opening Yeshivas and schools. And yes, often in remote places but our mesora is that this is what we should be doing.

(For example my husband has many more years here but so far he has "job offers" in Orlando and Vegas. )

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 12:45 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I think you're talking about a different community, as above amother said.

The community you are referring to does ask for support.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 1:02 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

I think you're talking about a different community, as above amother said.

The community you are referring to does ask for support.

No, not necessarily. There are plenty that don't. But by the time they have reached their mid to upper 30s, they often do need help to make it. Or else they are extremely poor. Like still living in a basement apartment with teens. Those who bought homes had some kind of help. Whether with the down payment etc.

Anyway, the CC pple I know didn't go into klei kodesh after leaving kollel.. More along the line of opening Amazon businesses. Which may or may not take off. The wives are still the primary breadwinners.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 1:30 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

What do they do about their kids? They are only years away from marrying them off.

amother

Cerise

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:13 pm

I always wondered what these ppl do when marrying off their kids.

They dont have to live in a basement because if you live in certain states, then after a certain amount of years and eligible children, you can qualify for the state to pay your rent, so some of these families rent huge houses.

But, with living simply, they make it. The only question is what they do for expensive things like weddings, tznius clothing, children's sheitels, school uniforms, etc...

I just dont get it.

amother

Copper

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:27 pm

My inlaws who are kinda poor and almost can't afford their mortgage are supporting a kollel couple. Because they were told that it is a huge mitzvah to support and in the circles they needed to pay. They are also really part that his kid turned out so perfectly chareidi like they wanted for all the children. Married into a good family, they admire them so much. Lots of other children don't ask them for help because they are busy to support this family where they are so so proud of.
This together that every black hat is a big tzaddik, and that some other children are getting belittled like my husband also spend times in chareidi yeshivas, but if he is saying that you can eat a parve cake on a milchic plate after eating meat my inlaws will not trust him and call a Rav instead... yeah about such silly things...

TL;DR in the case of my inlaws they keep supporting even though they are struggling because they are told and believe it is a huge mitzvah which will give them in the future parnassa...

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 6:10 pm

amother [ Slategray ] wrote:

What do they do about their kids? They are only years away from marrying them off.

I truly don't know. They are at the point that it's gonna come up in the next year or so.
Also, states don't just provide money for people to rent houses because thet have a bunch of kids. If you are referring to HUD, you have to qualify. Not so many people do.

amother

Plum

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 6:44 pm

Look we've gone through this convo on many, many threads.

Bottom line it's a messed up system but it is what it is.

A Bais Yaakov/Chareidi girl who wants to marry a learning boy NEEDS to offer support, or she probably won't get married. Or will wait a very long time to get married. This stands EVEN if she has savings and a good job.

There are very, very few boys/parents who would take a girl without support. Why should they, if they can get a girl with support just as easily? Insane, but there you go.

Some may bring examples of themselves/people they know and say, oh look, my husband/in-laws took me/ that girl without support.
Good for you, really and truly.
But know that you are in the minority.
In today's day and age, very few such people exist.

And for anyone who says, so let her marry a nice frum working boy, that also barely exists.
There are very, very few boys who aren't planning to learn for at least a few years that would be a good match for such a girl.

That is the situation in a nutshell.

Argue with me as much as you want; won't change the facts.

Now if anyone has a solution to this crazy system, that would be something worth discussing....

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 6:50 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I agree..the solution is to find wealthy boys who's parents don't mind to support them on their own. Often the girls who are brought up unentitled and without having to have it all are the ones from poorer backgrounds. This is what has happened to a couple of dh nieces from the same family but the 3rd one is still waiting. And knH there is another girl just under her. And another after her! It must be hard.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:00 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I agree with just about every bit of what you say. I will just add, that if the girl has a very good job, most parents/boys are fine with that.
But, that starts another domino effect of girls rushing to finish college or hurrying into a career path because they know they need to in order to get married.
I think it's mostly the 19 (and even 20 year old) girls getting married that need to bring support with them, by way of parents. Whether it's helping her through school or supplementing rent or groceries. Your average 19 year old girl doesn't have savings or earning capacity yet that can do it all.
Obviously there will be an exception here and there with a girl who saved up every penny of babysitting money since she was 12. (But in my experience most of them used that babysitting money to pay for seminary.)

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:02 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

Just want to add- my sister is a 23 y.o nurse. Shes looking for a learning guy. I dont think my parents have been asked about support since she graduated and started working. There is an age and stage where people assume that the couple will be ok w.o the support..

In Lakewood? I'd be surprised and relieved to hear. I'm told that in much of the yeshivish world this is not the case. I have a friend who had graduated and had a very good job and her in laws still demanded 2500 a month for 7 years. (Which they are saving now because they don't need it).

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:03 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

And why would it be such a bad idea to wait a year or two to start going out? Does every girl have to get married at 19? Considering that the learning boys generally start at 22, 23....

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:04 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Just to point out that 21 is relatively young in the litvish world.

Now it is! Once upon a time (ok, in the 80s and early 90s) there were few 21 years still single. People don't even realize how much societal shifts have become the new normal since the advent of the "shidduch crisis." (And please don't bring up that tired old saw of the age gap theory. )