Spinoff- struggling but still supporting married kids learn?

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 11:27 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

This is probably part of the reason lots of girls are getting married a bit older. Because their parents can't offer support. And I think as a result you are also starting to see slightly older single boys in yeshiva who are still single, mid to upper 20s. Used to also be fairly unusual to have a 26 or 27 year old yeshiva guy unmarried.
So they get married a couple years later. By that point his parents likely concede that a girl with a CPA (for example) who has been working at a government job with a decent salary and great benefits is just fine, they don't need her parents to kick in $1000 a month.
Maybe this is actually better all around.

Very true violet.
When I look at resumes and see a girl at a yeshiva secretary job, I think to myself - how will they make it. My son can make do with very little Bh and is not looking for money at all, but we know reality. Bh rent, food, insurance, Tuition’s iyh.... while when I see a resume that the girl has a degree even if the parents can’t kick in that much it is more helpful.
Bottom line, as much as we talk and say, we are in hashems hands.
Iyh hashem should guide each of our children to the right one for them.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 11:33 am

Chayalle wrote:

Chartreuse's example is rather extreme. I have two nieces who married long-term learners in the last few years (months, one of them, actually) and in both cases the commitment is more like 2-3 years, and less per month. I have heard that being quite the norm.

Still $36 K or so that the parents might need for tuition, or to help their own parents, or other expenses.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 11:34 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

What about a girl who's an excellent mechaneches and has years of experience teaching?

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 11:56 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I have a yeshivish, very strong learner, wonderful middos Bh son in shidduchim now. He is my oldest.
Yes, people are greedy and ask for very high numbers. I bh do not and won’t be part of that.
What I’m hearing for ‘yeshiva’ people the norm they are offering to support their daughter and son in law is $1200 for 7 years.
That and with the girl working and the boys side giving something should be ok for the beginning.

$1200 is still a ton of money for support. if the couple wants to live modestly you do not need that much. I was a secretary, we did not rent the most gorgeous apartment, we never ate out (we are a KOLLEL family...) I dont have any sisters and my parents offered to give whatever the "going rate" was, and were told 1000 is very generous. many people do $500 for 5 years. bh I got a wonderful dh, and we did not even need that much (we were able to put away in savings which my parents were happy about).

Mommyg8

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 11:58 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

But to stay on topic with this thread...a truly struggling family doesn't have an extra $1200 per month to give. And what if they have a few daughters close in age? That could add up to an extra $4000 per month.

If I would tell you how ten different people did it - ten different stories - would that help you? Everyone does what works for them.

I have heard that this is a serious problem in Israel, but while it's a serious struggle in the US, I haven't heard that it has reached crisis proportions. Though it's definitely an issue that many are struggling with.

Mommyg8

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:01 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

True, how are these people supposed to make weddings? And $1200 is on the lower range.
However they plan on doing that they most likely (not saying all) will need to take some of that money to help support. It definitely is challenging but unfortunately this is the system.

You can turn the question around - how do people in the Chassidish world make weddings? In a recent Mishpacha article, they said that it costs $100K each child, each side, no matter how you slice the cake. In the same article, they interviewed a yeshivish woman who said that all her weddings expenses altogether were under $20K.

Let's face it, frum living is very expensive, to borrow her expression - no matter how you slice the cake.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:05 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

Honestly I think that's dying out. Most girls who do that either have parents who are still offering support, or are teaching while getting their degree.

It's a fact that the schools are losing out, they have a harder time getting good teachers. Many girls simply can't afford it (neither the salary nor the sometimes delayed pay....)

I taught in a local high school before starting to work as a computer programmer. I got my first pay check from them about 2 years later.

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:05 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I already gave my thoughts:)
I think now girls are much more likely to pursue a degree. Now that online degrees are common, people who never would have gone the regular collegr route have more options
And those that don't have support probably aren't the first ones in their class getting married.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:33 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Yes it has reached crisis proportions. It's where the age gap is coming in. (I don't agree with it, or the social engineering it inspires.) There are more girls who want learners. And even boys who don't plan to learn long term are asking for help. Boys who 25 years ago wouldn't have.
It's not an apartment but it is a lot.

amother

Brown

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:34 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

Honestly I think that's dying out. Most girls who do that either have parents who are still offering support, or are teaching while getting their degree.

Nope, not dying out.
Anyone saw an article in Ami some time ago, about someone's amazing but from poor family niece A being turned down for a shidduch and the same boy getting engaged to the that woman's niece B, not as amazing but from a well to do family?

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 08 2020, 12:48 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

I'll use my real life observations and experiences to inform myself, not one random article about 1 specific person from Ami magazine (which, sorry, usually comes across as made up or embellished). (And fyi, most of their "real life" stories are fiction.) Just saying! Plus they are pretty obviously not geared to, or about, your typical yeshivish kollel type family. Mishpacha magazine is more clued in to these type of things.

Not to mention, there have been many many articles and pleading letters written the past few years from long time educators and administrators decrying the trend of younger women choosing other fields than chinuch (they always reference the financial angle as being the problem).