Sour dough challah

BadTichelDay

Wed, Jul 15 2020, 3:35 pm

Do you already have an active sourdough? I grew my own a few years ago on a rye flour basis. There are instructions for growing your own sourdough all over the internet - in principle, you mix flour and water and put it in a nice warm place and feed it every day with more flour. If you want details feel free to pm me. I used it to bake eggless challot which were made of 50% rye flour and 50% wheat flour plus a bit of olive oil, salt and sugar. No fixed recipe, just played it by ear. They tasted much like any sourdough bread. Fine, just not very challah-dik. And the dough wouldn't braid, it was too soft for that, so I made them simply round shaped. And I had to add a bit of commercial yeast, else they wouldn't rise enough. On the plus side, they kept fresh and chewy much longer than ordinary challah and had that hearty sweet-sour honey/vinegar smell of real sourdough.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 15 2020, 6:14 pm

When you are making the starter, you are basically cultivating a colony of wild yeast instead of using commercial yeast. The main difference is the fermentation process, but it's still yeast.

For your DH, if he's really allergic then your best bet is going to be making a quick bread recipe, with baking soda and baking powder for leavening. It will have a soft texture like a muffin, and will taste good, it just won't be "bread-ish".

moomles

Wed, Jul 15 2020, 7:06 pm

I make this recipe regularly.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/no.....ecipe

You have to follow the instructions to the letter and don’t rush it. Start the night before. I plait the challah then let it rise in a loaf tin. It gives a better shape.

The sourdough starter takes at least a week or two to get started. I find it’s best to feed the starter with whole grain flour even if you bake with white flour.

https://www.theguardian.com/li.....ecipe

Enjoy

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Jul 15 2020, 8:20 pm

I've taught many people to make sour dough. I just want to mention that making a starter from scratch for a beginner is really not a great idea. tried and proven by myself and many ppl that I taught. it gets too frustrating, it takes time to grow the starter and many times you need to start over after two weeks. secondly, you don't know what a good starter is supposed to look like and feel like so you don't have what to go by. also, if you have a good strong starter, you can be a lot more flexible with the dough.
also, from my experience, the books and sites and pamphlets that teach sour dough are usually very complicated recipes. it's not necessary for it to be so hard and complicated. I have many tricks and easy ways to make it happen and it's DELICIOUS.
if you wanna give me an email address or phone number I can gladly teach you. I don't charge. I am happy it's getting out there and ppl are picking up on it...
I don't think I can type it all up though

amother

Brown

Wed, Jul 15 2020, 10:05 pm

if you want to make spelt sourdough, look on fullnfree.com under sourdough. she has a whole series of videos (free) of exactly how to make sourdough (even how to make starter).
I follow her on instagram, and it seems people are really getting the hang of it. I haven't tried it yet myself, but I'm really planning on trying it. having access to all those videos makes it seems doable.

BadTichelDay

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 6:06 am

I experimented with sour dough challah a year or two ago, several times. It actually was easy and worked well. There are all kind of fancy starter recipes out there but I found that just 2 ingedients, flour and water, do the job. But it takes time. First, take a bowl and put in 300 grams of flour, can be either rye or wheat (whole flour works better) or both, and water to give it the consistency of pancake batter. Keep covered at room temperature and stir every 24 hours. Feed with a cup of flour every 24 hours. After 2-3 days it will start showing bubbles and smell like old gym socks. After 5-6 days the smell should turn pleasant, fruity, citrus like or a bit like fresh vinegar. It should bubble and rise well at this time after every feeding. If a sour dough smells bad after this time, it's rotten. If it grows any mold, out with it. Never happened to me though. My 7 or 8 sour dough starters all turned out fine. I gave up on it eventually because breeding the sourdough continually was too much work and as it grows all the time, I ended up throwing away too much of it. It is possible to keep it in the fridge to slow down growth and feed less often but then it needs a day at room temperature before baking to get back to full function. Frozen samples didn't re-start well for me.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 11:41 am

Amother firebrick, we can't contact you if you are anon. We need you to post under your SN so we can PM you.

I'd love some help. My starters always get moldy! No matter how well I sterilize the jars, boil the water for the starter, or what type of covering I put over the top. They are never salvageable. Sad

I also want to make injera, and that means using a teff starter. That went moldy too, and teff is pretty expensive compared to flour. I can't afford to experiment a lot with injera.

The only thing I've had real success with, is Mark Bitman's no-knead overnight bread. That always rises beautifully and has a bit of a sourdough taste and texture.

BadTichelDay

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 12:01 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

so about how much water do I need to put in? what type bowl works the best? glass jar-- plastic container, has to be covered or open? warm place or reg on the counter? thank you for all hints and tips.

I've used both glass and plastic containers, both worked equally well. I had them covered loosely with a plate or a kitchen towel. Regular on the counter, in both summer and winter, no extra warmth.
The quantity of the water - I didn't measure it, just mixed it in until I got the right consistency, like thick pancake batter, or freshly mixed cement, kind of. Bit hard to describe. Pourable, not totally liquid but also not firm.

BadTichelDay

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 12:14 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

FF, I never sterilized any jars and didn't boil the water. Used water straight from the tap and containers out of the cupboard. After all, sour dough starter needs to "catch" beneficial wild yeasts and bacteria from somewhere. Maybe sterilizing prevents that and then the molds sail in? Did they get moldy right away or later, when they were already bubbling and rising?
I did start one with unfiltered beer instead of water. It matured faster than the other ones, was robust and long lasting and had a very pleasant orange-like smell throughout its life.
Or could it be that your starters were a bit too dry and firm? I had one which I left out to die and it got moldy only after drying out. As long as mine were liquid enough, they were resistant to almost anything.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 12:24 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

Maybe I did start out too sterile, I hadn't thought of that. I have tried "seeding" the starter with wild grapes or with untreated apple skins to get natural wild yeasts. The starters bubble and rise just fine, but within two weeks they are all furry and vinegar smelling, not the sweet/sour smell you'd expect. I tried to taste a bit, and it was most definitely off. Once I tried to scrape off the mold, transfered the starter to a new jar, and then fed it some more. It never bubbled or rose again, it was quite dead.

I kill indoor plants, too. Maybe I just have a black thumb?

moomles

Thu, Jul 16 2020, 1:04 pm

I started with 150g wholewheat flour and 150g water. It is recommended not to use chlorinated water. I have never found it makes a difference. Always use a glass jar with wide mouth. An old mayonnaise jar is good. Cover with a piece of cloth secured with an elastic band. Leave in a warm but not hot environment to get started. When I feed the starter (after it starts bubbling) discard 150g of starter (use to bake or in cooking for pancakes or in cakes) and add 75g wholewheat flour and 75g water. When the culture is vigorous store in the fridge and feed weekly or when you want to bake.

BadTichelDay

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 5:09 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Hmmm. Did you keep them on the counter and feed them every day and stir them well at feeding time? Or did you keep them in the fridge? I think in the fridge with feeding only occasionally is more risky - mine didn't seem to like the fridge. It weakened them.
Another thing is, I didn't leave my starters in the same container all the time but rather "re-potted" them once a week into a clean jar, to prevent the dried out splashes around the rim from attracting mold.
Vinegary smell can be okay, as long as it's a pleasant note. I've had vinegary-earthy smelling starters as well as fruity ones. But fur is a bad sign of course.
Maybe try a no-fridge and regular re-potting policy.