Anyone backing out of sending daughter to seminary in EY

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Aug 05 2020, 9:51 pm

First Lady wrote:

It is gonna be a lot cheaper for sure.

Is Touro much cheaper than seminary?

coloredleaves

Wed, Aug 05 2020, 10:10 pm

They are actually about the same cost except the flight- maybe Touro is a few thousands dollars less. Really not a major difference. I think when people say israel is so much more Woxensive than staying home I think those are people who would otherwise not be going to college or Would go to a state college.

amother

Gray

Wed, Aug 05 2020, 11:16 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Is Touro much cheaper than seminary?

I didn't price out touro, but other Seminaries that I did that offer a BA plus Seminary are about $18k. And many people can get FAFSA and/or TAP. Israel is about 30k. So it's definitely cheaper locally.

coloredleaves

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 12:39 am

My daughters israel by seminary is 24,000 and likely a few thousand will be taken off by masa which now looks like it will come through. Touro Manhattan is 20,500 a year. I don't see that as a crazy big difference.

mandksima

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:34 am

Woah, I missed a lot yesterday, sorry I couldn't reply then.

I think at this point I just need to apologize profusely and bow out of this conversation. I am not calling anyone rashaim cv"s, especially not anyone's rav. I am too judgmental and I must work on it. Sometimes I forget people have a different derech than me and our same Torah may be interpreted quite differently. Something so central to my every belief may not be accepted by all.

Obviously, everyone has their own cheshbon and doesn't have to answer to me, only Hashem. I meant to inspire a love of the Land with my post and didn't mean to bring any of my other leanings into the conversation.

Please forgive my overstepping.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:14 am

Anyone with half a brain cell , realizing the uncertainty backed out. like previous poster said. The concern is that the seminary industry will fail as most will see that seminary is NOT MANDATORY to becoming a wholesome adult. It's become out of control that everyone and their neighbor need to spend 30k for a year of glorified camp plus learning. I for one am glad the hype has been flattened.

amother

Gold

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:23 am

If your child is going to yeshiva or seminary to go to camp , then keep them back.
If they are going to grow in learning, yiddishkeit, and experience living in eretz yisrael, how can you turn down the opportunity?
The year will be amazing for most.
If your child is very inflexible or has extreme emotional or unstable medical issues also keep them home. For the average sem or yeshiva student go for it

happyone

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:34 am

I know 15 plus girls that backed out. It did not make sense for them with the financial crisis, uncertainty both in Israel and the US, and not being able to experience Israel as past seminary girls did. Many got jobs, enrolled in local college, or will be figuring their lives out local.
It's not the end of the world for them, and the lessons learned on dealing with disappointments are invaluable.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:35 am

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

That is really inexpensive.

little neshamala

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:43 am

happyone wrote:

Agree.

I also know a couple of mainstream, good BY girls who opted out of seminary completely (not due to covid, in the past few years) and are doing just fine for themselves.
The tide is definitely changing.

I also think in the future people in Israel might consider opening "sleepaway camp" style experience for post highschool girls, a couple of weeks of enjoyable experiencing EY type of thing, with tiyulim etc....like this you can still go to EY but for a fraction of the cost and time

Last edited by little neshamala on Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Maroon

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:45 am

happyone wrote:

Yes, yes and yes again. That's something that we keep on overlooking as we forcefully push for the things we are used to.

amother

Peach

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:59 am

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

I know things are different this year. But OOTers who didn't qualify for FAFSA but did qualify for MASA and local Federation grants found EY doable in the past.

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 9:02 am

mandksima wrote:

I liked your post because I appreciated your considering what other posters had to say. But I'm not liking your bowing out. You might still have something to say.

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 11:22 am

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

This thread has no relevance to me but I couldn't continue reading further without correcting. The possuk clearly says they were "anashim" which rashi says implies they were top tier great people. They were tzaddikim.
(Chassidus explains that the reason they didnt want to enter was because they mistakenly thought that the midbar lifestyle which was entirely focused on learning torah and not on physical worldly involvement was ideal. This is true for some select rare gedolim like themselves but the mistake was thinking that this also applied to the masses.)

Anashim meaning great or important people, tzadikim, definitely.
Rabbis, not necessarily.

banana123

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 11:24 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Excuse me.

I do have more than half a brain cell (and am currently fuming at those who lack half a brain cell) but I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who sees the uncertainty will back out.

Just like you can't say that everyone should be going to seminary in EY or making aliya, you can't say that everyone should be backing out. These are personal choices and what's right for one person may not be right for someone else.

That said I am glad the hype is dissipating and no, seminary is not mandatory. However, it is also not glorified camp plus learning.

Seminary is right for some people in some circumstances, and wrong for other people or in other circumstances

(Personally, if COVID-19 had been around when I was seminary age, I still would have gone, and it still would've been the right choice for me. Lockdown or no lockdown.)

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 11:37 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

Anashim meaning great or important people, tzadikim, definitely.
Rabbis, not necessarily.

They had a leadership role.
As far as rabbis, I guess there was the system Yisro set up for halachic issues.

mandksima

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 11:43 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I liked your post because I appreciated your considering what other posters had to say. But I'm not liking your bowing out. You might still have something to say.

I have a lot to say because I genuinely am concerned for every Jew and indifference is not okay in my book. Only moshiach coming can fix all of the differences that divide us. My insistence on something I fully believe when others don't doesn't get me far or help anyone else. I've been trying to convince my close family member from Brooklyn to move to Israel already and it is like we see from two totally opposite perspectives. I consider the US very dangerous physically and spiritually now, especially with Carona, the lowering of moral standards and the rise of anti-semitism and therefore every day that she delays makes me crazy. She doesn't feel the danger like I seem to so I can't convince her to run for her life. Without feeling like it is pikuach nefesh to leave, then all the considerations that are normal to consider before aliyah are discussed. It is very hard to leave under her considerations. She actually really wants to come but needs her criteria met. For me, it's a no brainer, just save your family. Either way, running away from the US is great if you're running to Israel in time for the geula. There are a lot of people like me who really fear these days being outside Israel and the mere fact the borders are closed for most makes it really something to think about. I must ask myself constantly what Hashem wants from us now. Is it enough to want moshiach or do people have to make the physical start of going to Israel? It seems that is where we differ. I believe the yearning for moshiach has to be there for everyone and if it is impossible to come at the moment, one obviously has to stay put but if able, every Jew should come to Israel. Since young adults have the option whereas adults and families don't unless they make aliyah, it seems so clear to me to at least send the sem and yeshiva kids. Sometimes the children bring the idea closer to the parents once they are here and the families can follow. But , as I've been reminded, this belief is not universal among the Orthodox.

I don't like the way that seminaries have become an industry. It's a shame that is has turned into such a business. There are places for baale teshuva like Neve Yerushalim or Ohr Sameach for men that you pay when you can but the most important thing is to go and grow and learn. There should be more yeshivish places that are laid back like that too. Not everyone is doing it for the profit but it does seem like most do. To skip Israel though is so sad to me. Every person's soul has a deep connection to EY as Hashem made us like that. In order to access it, one needs to experience it. There are so many Jews from countries around the world who's greatest wish is to be able to go to Israel someday. To think that Moshe rabbeinu begged Hashem and was denied is a reflection of the required desire. For Americans to brush it aside because girls don't need it and do fine without it is so sad because that may make them miss their necessary connection and if Moshe wanted it so badly, why don't we all? Maybe the connection will come later but it is so much harder to go on a visit once you have a family and it would never be for a year which helps you get a full taste of the experience. I have friends who never went and I don't think they understand at all what they have missed out on. They don't crave it in their heart in the same way and they don't grasp the holiness that you can feel today even without the geula. It's not just another country to tour and visit on the map. It is our soul's home on Earth and the unity felt in a land full of Jews is so different than anywhere else.

amother

Wine

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 1:00 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I think this is an important point. Seminary does not equal EY. There are phenomenal programs in the US, excellent classes and meaningful extra programming.
Don't get me wrong, EY sems offer this more plus the experience of EY.
But girls who've been through US seminaries can really grow.
What I wonder about is dorm options for OOT girls.

I am so with you on this.

My mom sold her diamond bracelet so my sister could go. Which, IMNSHO, is crazy.

Can't understand why their tuition is so bloody expensive

Can't understand why girls can't be just as inspired by teachers here

Can't understand why a girl can't learn to value the Torah life from watching her parents and from seminary in America

Can't understand why a girl can't go for a few weeks if she yearns for the holiness

Cant understand why the seminaries got so hysterical about the Hamodia article (I really could-they're a mafia business)

happyness

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 1:02 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I am not denying in any way the kedusha of Eretz Yisroel. When Moshiach comes I'll be on the first plane over. The modern government of Israel however has no kedusha. It is run by anti religious self hating Jews for the most part. There is corruption and civil unrest in Israel as well. It is still very much golu.

I wonder if certain people posting on this thread work for or own seminaries. From the people I have spoken to in real life who know people who work for seminaries they are TERRIFIED of the current paradigm changing. They are afraid people will realize girls can survive without the year in an Israeli Seminary and stop sending. This would destroy the entire industry and the livelihoods of many people. That is unfortunate. But I don't have to agree to send my daughter into a situation of sakana because of it.

And you know what. It's actually the reaction of the Seminary industry (and yes, it's an industry with it's own lobbying group now) to the current crisis had actually woken me up. It's plainly obvious that it's all about the money and nothing about the girls at all feom how they have been reacting to the situation. They should have said. "You know what, we realize it's not a year where people feel comfortable sending their children so far from home so we're not going to open this year." Instead they twisted things and came up with a plan that any sane person who really thinks about it would realize is all about them and their pockets.

Bringing religion and the meraglim etc... into this is classic gaslighting. Shame on you!

I CANNOT LIKE THIS POST ENOUGH!!!!!

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 1:02 pm

Tuoro is not $30,000 tuition plus it’s two tickets plus tickets and hotel for parents to visit once a year plus taking the girls friends out to eat. The cost of clothes before seminary and going out to eat because seminary doesn’t provide enough food. You
Wish it’s only $30,000 ask any parent who sent it ends up being $50,000