Teacher in yeshiva gets checks for child’s yeshiva?

soap suds

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:51 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

If I am reading your post correctly, while that may be technically legal it is not really ethical. Not impressed with this workaround.

Why not? Why is it a problem to negotiate on your compensation before you take a job?

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:58 pm

soap suds wrote:

Why not? Why is it a problem to negotiate on your compensation before you take a job?

If you wouldn't take the job for the sole 30,000 on its own, it's self explanatory.
Please. The reason they "negotiate" a nice chunk of money for the school to send the to the other one is to avoid taxes on that part. Unethical. Like paying under the table.

If schools cut ethical corners this way I am pretty sure there us other funny stuff going on and you better pray it never gets audited.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:02 pm

Moonlight wrote:

It is 100% legal. There are guidelines. QTR AKA QTP.

You clearly did not read that article in full, or the other posts explaining why.

Again, do this at your peril. Consult a tax expert.

Honestly if someone ends up in trouble for this, they won't get any sympathy from me.

And I have no respect for someone doing that negotiating shtick. It's unethical and embarrassing that a frum school does this.

BTW my relative was never assigned to do audits of frum schools or institutions but he had coworkers who did so. It was a terrible chillul Hashem and very embarrassing, some of the stories they brought back of absolutely illegal financial stuff going on.

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:03 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

it’s a perk given to teachers. The most upstanding MO schools I know do it. Non Jewish schools do it.
It is only legal for teachers. For other types of employees it is not.
It is how the salary is negotiated.
What would be wrong if audited? I’m confused what there is to be afraid of?

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:09 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I won't explain again. Reread my posts.
If you want to convince yourself that's your choice.
Some people/institutions just have to learn the hard way.
There should be more symposiums on this. The Agudah has tried, here and there.
But I guess the next time a frum school goes through a highly publicized audit and someone ends up in court, they will.

amother

Mint

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:10 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I‘ve spoke to the administrator at a couple of the MO schools that write their contracts that way. There’s no real negotiations, what there is is the school telling the teacher they’ll pay $50k and then the teacher says how much he/she wants as QTR and the contract is written as such. If the school offered $40k and the teacher said I want an additional $10k and the school offered it as QTR that would be a negotiator.
And you’re incorrect about your other fact, the benefit is for ALL employees at an educational institution not just teachers.

Moonlight

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:18 pm

As an administrator is a school that prides itself as being very yashrusdig, I'm finding your insistence that it isnt legal insulting when we have done the research and consulted lawyers and found it to be totally fine

cnc

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 8:55 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I’ve spoken with the Agudah about this and have been present at their symposiums addressing it and it is completely kosher .

amother

Amethyst

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 3:51 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

FYI the so called trouble would probably just ge a tax a bill to the enployee.

notshanarishona

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 4:14 am

Free tuition or reduced to the school you are working for is standard. Tax Free tuition to another school is more of a gray area.

amother

Taupe

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 5:27 am

balibusta wrote:

What abt secretaries in frum schools I heard of them doing that too

My understanding is that there are way more issues when the secretary does it.

amother

Oak

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 5:41 am

Quote:

It’s actually not legal when done that way. It’s only legal when done as a bonus/fringe benefit in addition to salary not in lieu of salary.
It’s pretty common to do it the way your school does I would even say that most do it that way including some big name institutions and the IRS has yet to make an issue of it but Agudah is very vocal about it being wrong. You can read this from their attorney if you’d like.
http://legalsupportservicesllc.....e.pdf

I don't work at a frum place. It's not an Agudah issue. I also don't like how ppl say that frum places like to get around the letter of the law. Seems conniving.

amother

Mint

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 6:59 am

Moonlight wrote:

If you offer it as a fringe benefit it’s perfectly legal. If its in lieu of salary it’s not, that’s very clear. I don’t know how your lawyers would say the second option is legal. What they would likely say is that the Catholic schools do it this way and the government seems to be choosing to turn the other way so we can do it to.
If you have research that says otherwise please share.

Hashem_Yaazor

Sat, Aug 08 2020, 7:41 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Free tuition or reduced to the school you are working for is standard. Tax Free tuition to another school is more of a gray area.

No, the IRS is very clear it's to any educational institution.

Hashem_Yaazor

Sat, Aug 08 2020, 7:43 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

My understanding is that there are way more issues when the secretary does it.

You might be mixing that up with parsonage, which should be for "members of the clergy".
QTR is for any employee of an educational institution to pay for the employee or employee's dependents' tuition at an educational institution.