Here (good) versus There (bad)

amother

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 10:06 pm

For all of you Americans, I think you sound somewhat ridiculous. Feel free to be angry in the comments below.

So now there's about five hundred emails about "checkpoints" and "quarantine" and "don't go to Florida, that's where all the bad cases are!" In your minds, the bad people are in Florida and other places that are just now getting the virus. And the good people are those from New York and New Jersey, where all you had to do was have most of your communities come down with the virus, have the highest death rates in the world per capita, and then claim that your politicians are now doing a fabulous job.

First of all, all your public transportation is open. Second, you have flights coming in from all over the world daily. Third, your state borders don't actually exist. Also, all of us have the ability to remember things that happened four months ago.

A mere few months ago, in the height of New York's surge, there were plenty of people who flew to Florida. And now you're saying that "all your covid cases are coming from there (Florida)." How do you know they're not just bringing back what you brought them?

And let's not forget the eleventy million emails about camp!

Look, either you do this properly, or you get off your high horse about who's bad.

fleetwood

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 7:15 am

[quote="amother [ OP ]"]For all of you Americans, I think you sound somewhat ridiculous. Feel free to be angry in the comments below.

So now there's about five hundred emails about "checkpoints" and "quarantine" and "don't go to Florida, that's where all the bad cases are!" In your minds, the bad people are in Florida and other places that are just now getting the virus. And the good people are those from New York and New Jersey, where all you had to do was have most of your communities come down with the virus, have the highest death rates in the world per capita, and then claim that your politicians are now doing a fabulous job.

First of all, all your public transportation is open. Second, you have flights coming in from all over the world daily. Third, your state borders don't actually exist. Also, all of us have the ability to remember things that happened four months ago.

A mere few months ago, in the height of New York's surge, there were plenty of people who flew to Florida. And now you're saying that "all your covid cases are coming from there (Florida)." How do you know they're not just bringing back what you brought them?

And let's not forget the eleventy million emails about camp!

Look, either you do this properly, or you get off your high horse about who's bad.[/quote

If you're going to bash at least have the nerve to do it under your screen name..

amother

Olive

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:05 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Bravo OP.

You should post under your SN and be proud of it. It's a good post.

It’s a fantastic post. I’m a US citizen living overseas and completely understand where OP is coming from. I have made her point about Fl cases possibly originating from the tri-state area before. Over Pesach people were talking about how they couldn’t possibly miss their Pesach in Fl.

And agreed 100% with OP about sleep-away camps. Where we live all were cancelled and kids went on day camp instead. Nobody tried to circumvent the law.

amother

Amber

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:32 am

While it is true that NY/NJ people probably made Florida worse, the facts are that now are NY/NJ have much less cases and Florida has more. Probably because most people here have already gotten it, been exposed to it, or clearly have immunity to it because it was in their house and they didn't catch it. So yes, now people are scared to go to Florida and other states because it didn't "lessen" yet like by us. We have no idea if we will get a second wave. Also, we definitely don't think our governers do a good job and people bash them all day. People in Florida don't depend on public transportation to get to work like the people in NY. NY/NJ realizes they can't shut forever because there literally is no other way to get around. (The problem isn't the subway being open, it's the police only "encouraging" a mask but not enforcing.)

That being said, I don't condone traveling during corona, especially if you are socially distancing while you do.

Sometimes people just want to bash NY/NJ without actually looking at the facts. People from out of town may not realize what it means for people "in town" to social distance. Houses are closer together (think Boro park, Lakewood etc) and you literally can't walk to your car without bumping into someone. If your neighbor doesn't adhere to social distancing, they may also not respect you enough to understand that you actually care about it. At a certain point you realize that whether you like it or not people don't social distance and you can either go with the flow and not social distance or push super hard, look very weird, isolate your kids from their friends, stay in a basement apartment all day and not play outside except for in empty parking lots until whenever "corona is finished". Everyone makes a personal decision. Please stop judging us all as a whole.

Any other complaints I missed?

amother

Amber

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:43 am

I found 2 that I missed lol!

1. Flights. Yes, we have flights coming in and no one quarantines after. I know someone who came from Israel and didn't quarantine when they came in. Guess what, they could've landed in NY and driven to one of the states which are "bad". Maybe her family bought it in. (she's been here 3 weeks and whole family has zero symptoms just making a point). Just because there are bigger airports open, doesn't mean we are bad. If the US government thought it wasn't OK, they would've closed them. The governers can't override the government.

2. Camps. Guess we'll see in 2 weeks if they caused issues or not but guess what, most camps make the campers corona test every 2 weeks. Anyone positive gets sent home and the department of health decides what to do with that person's "group /bunk" or the whole camp. People congregate in and out of town without that in place so camps are more like a big "bubble". Kids needed a break and it was the best thing for them. Don't bash that camps were trying to open legally. One camp in NY opened as a family bungalow colony and counselors can only sleep here mon-Thurs, not watch kids during meals and not sleep with them. They followed NY law. Camps in PA had different rules and girls got tested every 2 weeks and bunks were kept smaller and everyone slept there 24/7. In my opinion, you are probably jealous about camps not opening by you because it has literally been a lifeline for soooo many!

amother

Olive

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:50 am

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

My kids usually go to sleep-away camp but didn’t as per the law. They are disappointed. However, none of us are jealous because we want my father-in-law to stay healthy and do not want to inadvertently cause him to be ill. There is more evidence now that children can spread the disease and just yesterday it was reported that a healthy seven-year old died in GA. A “lifeline” for bored kids and stressed parents doesn’t negate the need for caution.

amother

Amber

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:54 am

Definitely not! But the governments have worked out a way to have it work. If you don't want to send your kids you don't have to. But don't bash the parents that choose to send their kids to something that the law allows. My sister in law has been quarantined with older parents and an older single for months. Yes, when a camp opened legally and safely, she went for 3 weeks. Every parent makes their own decision but none of it is against the law. You can choose to send or not, eveyone does what works for their family

amother

Olive

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 8:55 am

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

There were threads on here about sleep-away camps opening when the State had said they were not allowed. That is what I am referring to when I talk of legalities.

pause

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 5:02 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1) Are you talking to NY'ers or to Americans? Those terms aren't interchangeable.

I'll assume NY.
2) There are no bad people in FL and good people in NY. There are good people in both places who quarantined after travel from a hotspot. Not my cup of tea, but if they were careful not to expose others, I don't care.

3) The highest death rate per capita is because of our political leaders making bad mistakes, for which we also blame them.

4) I don't know many people (nobody IRL and on imamother only fleetwood and SouthernBubby) who think our politicians did a fabulous job. On the contrary, most of us are disgusted and have continually expressed our disapproval.

5) Public transportation being open and incoming flights are decisions made by political leaders. Note, these aren't the same people who complain about camp being closed and NYC checkpoints.

6) We also have the ability to remember things that happened 4 months ago. It's why we were ok with lockdown 5 months ago, but were not ok with camps being closed 1 month ago and gyms still not being open.

7) Which emails about camp are you referring to?

amother

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 9:38 pm

My point is, there's no point in quarantining other people from other states. You're all one big melting pot. There's no point assigning a negative value to Florida and California and a positive value to New York and New Jersey for slowing the curve. Because flights are going in and out all the time, and the world is not a Jewish Frum Society bubble.

There's no point is making a checkpoint at some bridges when flights are coming in from all countries, including China and Israel.

There's no point in saying, "Don't travel to Florida! You better quarantine when you get back!" when you have a ton of people living it up in the bungalows and other sleepaway camps there.

I have relatives in the States - all the special needs camps are open and NO ONE WEARS MASKS. Someone despite the law saying no sleepaway camps should open, everyone sent their kids to them. Whether they're in Pennsylvania or Maine or the Catskills, what does it matter which state is a "low risk" state and which aren't, when no one has really locked borders or even refused to send their children to camps and schools?

Mommyg8

Sat, Aug 08 2020, 10:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There seems to be a disconnect between what is going on here and how it's perceived overseas.

There are no "good" or "bad" people - just different locations of outbreaks.

In March and April the outbreak was in New York and New Jersey, so Florida instituted a quarantine for anyone coming from those states - and for good reason. In August, now, the major outbreak is in Florida, California and Texas, etc.. New York and New Jersey's current numbers - both daily new cases and daily new deaths - are extremely low. So the outbreak is not here right now. Therefore the governors of New York and New Jersey are requesting - they can only request, they can't enforce - anybody coming from a state where there are current outbreaks to quarantine.

You are right that the rules are silly and inconsistent, especially as they are allowing flights from all over into JFK and Newark, but those of us who are living here are already used to the silliness and stupidity of our current local leaders - it barely registers anymore.

As for bungalow colonies and camps, etc.... as you see, their being open has not created major havoc, since as those of us in New York and New Jersey have stated a million times over - IT'S MOSTLY GONE HERE. Call it herd immunity, call it a miracle, call it whatever you want to call it, the bottom line is that there is NOT currently a severe outbreak in these two states.

Here is a link to Worldometer where you can see this yourself:

https://www.worldometers.info/.....y/us/

Click on each state, and you will see the graph. As you will see, the graph went way up for these two states in March and April, and it's going up now in other states. It's easier to get it when you see it visually presented.