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If antibodies don’t last, what is a vaccine worth?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 8:09 pm
Seriously, I’m like Banging head.
If the illness itself won’t provide you immunity what the ——— will a vaccine accomplish?
Except maybe big profits for the company that manufactures it.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 8:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Seriously, I’m like Banging head.
If the illness itself won’t provide you immunity what the ——— will a vaccine accomplish?
Except maybe big profits for the company that manufactures it.

Even if the antibodies don’t last, the cells recognize the virus so either you don’t get it again or you get it on much a lower scale. Did you hear of anyone getting it full force a second time? Probably less than 1%. They are the exception not the rule. Herd immunity is real. The proof is in the pudding. Look around in all camps and daycamps who don’t use masks. The people there are immune since March. Go ahead and bash me but that won’t change the facts.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 8:45 pm
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Even if the antibodies don’t last, the cells recognize the virus so either you don’t get it again or you get it on much a lower scale. Did you hear of anyone getting it full force a second time? Probably less than 1%. They are the exception not the rule. Herd immunity is real. The proof is in the pudding. Look around in all camps and daycamps who don’t use masks. The people there are immune since March. Go ahead and bash me but that won’t change the facts.


You’re seriously uninformed and listening to the liars who don’t want to SD and wear masks. A frum sleepaway in Pa. was full of the virus and they came home and spread it with hundreds of new cases in the 5 towns. So keep deluding yourself.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:01 pm
Vaccine response is not always the same as disease response. Sometimes this is bad (disease provides long-term immunity and vaccines do not) while sometimes it’s the reverse (vaccines provide long-term immunity even though the disease does not). That said, so far, it looks like COVID-19 antibodies provide a good amount of protection, even if not 100%.
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:02 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Seriously, I’m like Banging head.
If the illness itself won’t provide you immunity what the ——— will a vaccine accomplish?
Except maybe big profits for the company that manufactures it.


Exactly this.
And an agenda by Bill gates to vaccinate the entire globe.
He's said it more than once, on video.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:16 pm
Any medical professional I have spoken to says that if you have proven antibodies you either can't get it again or can only get a very mild case and almost definitely not be able to spread it to others. That's what vaccines do. They mimic the response your body has when it has the disease and cause your body to create antibodies.
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Jacoby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:19 pm
They will want us to vaccinate every 3 months 😟
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:26 pm
You're complaining that a vaccine that doesn't exist will be ineffective.

Talk about making things up to stir the pot!
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:38 pm
Monoclonal antibodies look hopeful but they may require a few doses a year. The vaccine will work best for younger people but it is still worthwhile for older people to try it.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:40 pm
they do last
IY"H there will be vaccine like there is for polio and measles and so much more B"H
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:44 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
You’re seriously uninformed and listening to the liars who don’t want to SD and wear masks. A frum sleepaway in Pa. was full of the virus and they came home and spread it with hundreds of new cases in the 5 towns. So keep deluding yourself.


Hundreds? I heard 8.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:51 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
You're complaining that a vaccine that doesn't exist will be ineffective.

Talk about making things up to stir the pot!


I actually do think it’s a valid question. There are many people who are doubtful of the herd immunity some communities claim to have, yet at the same time stated they won’t feel safe until a vaccine is produced. How is that logical?
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 9:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Seriously, I’m like Banging head.
If the illness itself won’t provide you immunity what the ——— will a vaccine accomplish?
Except maybe big profits for the company that manufactures it.


I'm answering this at face value, assuming you wanted an answer.

1. Vaccines can actually induce immunity that is stronger than the immunity gained from an infection with the actual virus. We do this by identifying what part of the virus triggers the protective immunity and attaching that to a substance that our bodies recognize as an immune trigger. This is the case, for example, with the Tetanus component of the TDaP.

2. Even a vaccine that is 60 or 70% effective can significantly reduce the virulence and/or spread of a virus, especially in the populations that need it the most, and reduce the strain on the health care system, providing better healthcare overall in regard to conditions beyond COVID19.

On another note, the antibody testing we have is really not very forthcoming. We are not even able to test for the actual antibody that confers immunity. It is very likely that someone may have a waning of the antibodies we currently know how to detect, but have t-cells that recognize the virus and prevent reinfection.

There are viruses for which subsequent infections are actually more dangerous (I.e. Dengue fever); however, I do not believe it is reasonable to compare a coronavirus to denegue fever unless proven otherwise. I think it is most reasonable to compare it to other coronaviruses, especially SARS (since it is so similar) and assume there should be immunity for at least a year; however, since it is new, we will need to study it.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:10 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
You’re seriously uninformed and listening to the liars who don’t want to SD and wear masks. A frum sleepaway in Pa. was full of the virus and they came home and spread it with hundreds of new cases in the 5 towns. So keep deluding yourself.

Hundreds of new cases ?!?! A huge exaggeration
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flmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:12 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
You’re seriously uninformed and listening to the liars who don’t want to SD and wear masks. A frum sleepaway in Pa. was full of the virus and they came home and spread it with hundreds of new cases in the 5 towns. So keep deluding yourself.


Where did you hear they spread it to hundreds of people? The article I read said 8 boys from the camp tested positive not that they spread it. I’m really curious.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:15 pm
nchr wrote:
I'm answering this at face value, assuming you wanted an answer.

1. Vaccines can actually induce immunity that is stronger than the immunity gained from an infection with the actual virus. We do this by identifying what part of the virus triggers the protective immunity and attaching that to a substance that our bodies recognize as an immune trigger. This is the case, for example, with the Tetanus component of the TDaP.

2. Even a vaccine that is 60 or 70% effective can significantly reduce the virulence and/or spread of a virus, especially in the populations that need it the most, and reduce the strain on the health care system, providing better healthcare overall in regard to conditions beyond COVID19.

On another note, the antibody testing we have is really not very forthcoming. We are not even able to test for the actual antibody that confers immunity. It is very likely that someone may have a waning of the antibodies we currently know how to detect, but have t-cells that recognize the virus and prevent reinfection.

There are viruses for which subsequent infections are actually more dangerous (I.e. Dengue fever); however, I do not believe it is reasonable to compare a coronavirus to denegue fever unless proven otherwise. I think it is most reasonable to compare it to other coronaviruses, especially SARS (since it is so similar) and assume there should be immunity for at least a year; however, since it is new, we will need to study it.


Tetanus is very different. It's not viral.

Typically, vaccines confer an immunity similar to the way the virus itself would. Antibodies are antibodies.

Sometimes the virus itself is more protective.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:22 pm
nchr wrote:
I'm answering this at face value, assuming you wanted an answer.

1. Vaccines can actually induce immunity that is stronger than the immunity gained from an infection with the actual virus. We do this by identifying what part of the virus triggers the protective immunity and attaching that to a substance that our bodies recognize as an immune trigger. This is the case, for example, with the Tetanus component of the TDaP.

2. Even a vaccine that is 60 or 70% effective can significantly reduce the virulence and/or spread of a virus, especially in the populations that need it the most, and reduce the strain on the health care system, providing better healthcare overall in regard to conditions beyond COVID19.

On another note, the antibody testing we have is really not very forthcoming. We are not even able to test for the actual antibody that confers immunity. It is very likely that someone may have a waning of the antibodies we currently know how to detect, but have t-cells that recognize the virus and prevent reinfection.

There are viruses for which subsequent infections are actually more dangerous (I.e. Dengue fever); however, I do not believe it is reasonable to compare a coronavirus to denegue fever unless proven otherwise. I think it is most reasonable to compare it to other coronaviruses, especially SARS (since it is so similar) and assume there should be immunity for at least a year; however, since it is new, we will need to study it.


Vaccines DO NOT provide stronger immunity than the disease itself!? Rolling Eyes
How is that even possible?
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:27 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Vaccines DO NOT provide stronger immunity than the disease itself!? Rolling Eyes
How is that even possible?


Not all vaccines but some do. The reason is because lets say the spike protein provides immunity. Your body may not recognize that when actually sick and may create antibodies to all of the proteins including the spike but say 100 of each. In a vaccine, we can attach the spike protein to another substance that our bodies recognzie as something that stimulates tcells and antibody production therefore the body focuses just on that particular protein and produces say 1,000 spike protein antibodies instead of 100 from natural infection. This is real laymans terms but I hope it is clear.

We actually are seeing that the individuals in the vaccine trials are producing significantly higher amounts of antibodies and have more tcell acitivity than individuals who had COVID19 and it's likely because it antibody targeted. That doesn't mean infection does not provide immunity but that we may be able to provide better, targeted immunity with a vaccine. This is also not the case with all vaccines, but some.


Last edited by nchr on Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:27 pm
Maybe the vaccine will have to be taken yearly like the flu shot.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:43 pm
tigerwife wrote:
I actually do think it’s a valid question. There are many people who are doubtful of the herd immunity some communities claim to have, yet at the same time stated they won’t feel safe until a vaccine is produced. How is that logical?


Because herd immunity requires that 70% to 80% of people have had the disease, and the numbers are nowhere close to that. Moreover, these are not closed communities. The UPS guy shows up, and they buy their groceries from a clerk who lives elsewhere. They buy gas at a station where someone from elsewhere pumped last. They're exposed.
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