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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Daughter and yom kippur -long



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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 2:10 pm
Its been a terribly hard few years for me and my (20'ish) daughter with a lot of losses and she told me recently that she is finding davening very stressful. She has come to see Hashem as a frightening being and not as a loving father. We have talked about it and she really tries, but in the end it just makes her feel guilty that she isn't owing to it with the right, picture perfect Kavanah. I told her that Hashem sees and appreciates how hard she tries, but she is so freaked out by the idea of not getting yom kippur "right" that I am afraid that she is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. How can I make her feel positively about the opportunity of yk and not afraid?
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STMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 2:35 pm
Tell her to forget the words in her siddur and just speak from her heart.
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 2:43 pm
That must be really hard. Where are you/what is your Haskafa? Would NCSY be of help? While it is initially designed for "public school kids" to guide them onto the derech, the teachers and Rebbeyim there might be a great resource.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 2:48 pm
Would she listen to a shiur with you?

Here are a few resources to print out:

https://m.breslev.co.il/articl.....glish

https://www.ou.org/holidays/ra.....ppur/
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 3:17 pm
Burgundy, our hashkafah is probably lw yeshivish.

Right now I can't suggest that she do or listen to anything of any length. I keep hoping that I can think of something to say to her --a remark that will help her relax. She has been saying she is scared of yk for weeks.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 4:08 pm
Maybe speak to her about how it's okay for a relationship with Hashem to ebb and flow and go through phases just like any other relationship that is real and personal. And if she is not feeling the same love and closeness that is ok. She might again one day.

I agree with the poster that says let her speak from her heart. Address these fears to Hashem Himself for he is creator of all emotions the good bad and ugly.

Basically let her know it's ok to feel sad and scared and angry that Hashem can hold it all.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 4:10 pm
I really liked this shiur. It talks about what it means that hashem is judging us, etc. (and what it doesn't mean).

https://www.theyeshiva.net/jewish/7759
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daagahminayin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 4:16 pm
https://youtu.be/0I9evo3u-v0

This recording of Kol Nidre really shifted my view of what Yom Kippur could be. It evokes such gentleness and compassion, Maybe your daughter will like it.
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aliavi




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 4:32 pm
So sorry for her and for you! I would question if she could be in a combination of depression and anxiety. Fear and rejection and failure knock each of us down at times. Kapara may feel like too much for her. Feel well.
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1ofbillions




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 27 2020, 4:33 pm
Yom Kippur is a day of authentic connection with God. That can be in whatever mode of communication a person wants. She can tell Him all about how hurt she is by all she’s dealing with, and that she has no energy to speak with Him. She can let Him know she’s doubting his goodness, and feels lost and resentful.

Alternately, a more emotionally unhealthy mode of communication would be giving God the silent treatment. It’s still communication, though, which is what Yom Kippur is for.

Here’s an excerpt from an article by Yonason Rosenblum in the Mishpacha this week that I found to be awesome:

AT THE BEGINNING of Shiur Three of the new volume, Reb Shlomo recounts an incident from his first zeman in Chevron Yeshivah in 1938. One day in the hallway he met the Rosh Yeshivah, Rav Yechezkel Sarna ztz”l, who asked him why he looked so serious and sad.

The 16-year-old bochur replied, “It’s Aseres Yemei Teshuvah. And the Rambam writes that real teshuvah occurs only when a person can testify on himself that he will never again return to his sin. Who can hope to reach this level?”

Rav Yechezkel shouted at him, “Why are you following the stringent opinion of the Rambam? We follow the lenient opinion of Rabbeinu Yonah, who writes that teshuvah necessary for atonement on Yom Kippur means ‘standing on the right path.’”

Rav Yechezkel proceeded to give a mashal of what it means to “stand on the right path,” which he had heard from the Alter of Slabodka, who heard it from Rav Yisrael Salanter.

A person goes to the taxi stand near Meah Shearim and asks how long the ride is to Bnei Brak, and is told it’s one hour. Yet two hours after starting the ride, he still hasn’t reached Bnei Brak. Indeed, when he asks how much farther it is to Bnei Brak, he is told that he is now three hours away and is near Mitzpeh Ramon in the Negev. For the last two hours he has been headed south, away from Bnei Brak. Nevertheless, he is now better off than he was when he left Yerushalayim, because at least now he is headed in the right direction. But had he continued in the wrong direction, he would never have reached Bnei Brak.

Rav Yechezkel’s point: One can’t achieve complete teshuvah in the Aseres Yemei Teshuvah or even know how long it will require to do so. But at the very least, one must be headed in the right direction.

Rav Yisrael Salanter deduced this principle — that teshuvah need not be complete for Yom Kippur to provide atonement — from the fact that the Gemara in Niddah (70b) refers to those who are “doing teshuvah,” not to those who have “done teshuvah.” Similarly, the Gemara in Shavuos (13a) says that Yom Kippur atones for those who are “doing teshuvah” (shavim), not those who have “done teshuvah” (shavu).

Young people want to do everything quickly. But teshuvah is a long process. Understanding one’s yetzer and how to cope with it is the work of a lifetime. But first one must be headed in the right direction.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 28 2020, 2:55 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Its been a terribly hard few years for me and my (20'ish) daughter with a lot of losses and she told me recently that she is finding davening very stressful. She has come to see Hashem as a frightening being and not as a loving father. We have talked about it and she really tries, but in the end it just makes her feel guilty that she isn't owing to it with the right, picture perfect Kavanah. I told her that Hashem sees and appreciates how hard she tries, but she is so freaked out by the idea of not getting yom kippur "right" that I am afraid that she is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. How can I make her feel positively about the opportunity of yk and not afraid?


Is she an anxious person in general? Does she show perfectionist tendencies in any other areas of her life?

I'm not an expert, but this sounds like "Religious OCD". Google it and see if it sounds like something your daughter might be experiencing. If so, the sooner it is treated, the better the outcome.

This is not something that will respond to logic. It's an intrusive thought, and she needs to learn how to work through it. CBT therapy is very good for this sort of thing.
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rydys




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 29 2020, 1:39 am
I know it is after Yom Kippur, but maybe this will help her in the future.

First of all, the main mitzva if Upm Kippur is fasting. If she did this, even if she didn’t daven at all, she “did Yom Kippur right”

Second, my mother was once speaking with the previous Bostoner Rebbe. She told him that sometimes she is angry at Hashem. His response was “Great! That means you have a relationship with him!”

Being in a relationship does not always mean you are happy with each other, there are ups and downs. The point is to keep the communication open.

If she’s feeling angry or upset with what has happened, she should tell Him. Yell at him. He can handle it! Use her own words and let Him know how she feels. Sometimes the words if Tefilla don’t work for us, so we can use our own.

It may take time, but if she keeps the communication open, eventually it will get better

I would also reassure her her that her feelings are normal and valid. We are all only human and Hashem knows that. Everyone goes through periods like this, she is not alone.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Sep 29 2020, 2:11 am
I found the first articles explanation of why we have hard/bad things happen to us an eye opener!

https://files.torahanytime.com.....1.pdf
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Tue, Sep 29 2020, 4:07 am
Something someone once told me was helpful is to write a letter to hashem. Obviously not in yk. But she can write how she feels, what it means to her and what she wants. Sometimes with a pen to paper you will be surprised what comes.out but it can really help process things. And she can do whatever she wants with it afterwards- save, toss, or even burn it. Whatever makes her feel good
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Sep 29 2020, 1:13 pm
Thank you all for your good ideas. A number of them are very useful. Yom Kippur turned out better than expected, although I am WIPED today from trying to strike exactly the right balance (upbeat and yet serious, meaningful and yet not TOO heavy...) Wishing you all a gemar tov and a gitten kvitel.
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