I feel terrible, did I do the right thing?

amother

Emerald

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 7:21 pm

I didn’t read the entire post so I’m not sure if this was suggested
At times when fasting is not possible ppl give tzeduka, the amount a person consumes in a day

But let me clarify you did the right thing

Let’s think of the alternative
CV”S you would have passed out
What then
B”H Hashem put the thought in your head
Drink orange juice NOW

Ema of 5

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 7:51 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I would think the opposite. That the rabbanim increased the restrictions, to ensure that we didn't violate the d'oraisa. In fact, there's never an instance (that I know of) where the rabbis have said its OK to violate Torah, so d'oraisa is stricter than derabbanan.

Fasting on Yom Kippur is deoraisa. Eating/drinking shiurim is derabbanan.
Deoraisa IS more strict than derabbanan, which is why we need the leniencies provided by derabbanans.

yksraya

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 8:34 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not asking for a p'sak, there's no p'sak now. What's done is done. I just feel terrible about it and wanted to know if I did the right thing.

You did the right thing.

Of course you feel terrible that you broke the fast on the holiest day of the year. But being that fainting is a state of pikuach nefesh, you actually had a mitzva by drinking.

goodmorning

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 9:16 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

Fasting on Yom Kippur is deoraisa. Eating/drinking shiurim is derabbanan.
Deoraisa IS more strict than derabbanan, which is why we need the leniencies provided by derabbanans.

FWIW, it is assur d'Oraisa to eat shiurim (what is actually known as a "chatzi shiur"). It is, however, not punishable by kareis.

(With the disclaimer that obviously one violates the d'Oraisa in the case of pikuach nefesh.)

Rambam Hilchos Shevisas Asor 2:3:

אָכַל אוֹ שָׁתָה פָּחוֹת מִשִּׁעוּר זֶה אֵינוֹ חַיָּב כָּרֵת. אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהוּא אָסוּר מִן הַתּוֹרָה בַּחֲצִי שִׁעוּר אֵין חַיָּבִין כָּרֵת אֶלָּא עַל כַּשִּׁעוּר. וְהָאוֹכֵל אוֹ הַשּׁוֹתֶה חֲצִי שִׁעוּר מַכִּין אוֹתוֹ מַכַּת מַרְדּוּת:

translation (courtesy of Chabad)

If a person eats or drinks less than the above-mentioned measures, he is not liable for karet. Although the Torah forbids partaking of less than the measure [for which punishment is given], one is not liable for karet unless [one partakes of] that measure.
A person who eats or drinks less than the minimal measure is given "stripes for rebellion."

amother

Mint

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 10:15 pm

goodmorning wrote:

It is not an issur d'Oraisa to each shiurim WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO SO BY DAAS TORAH.
Period. End of story.
That's what our rabbonim are here for.
They interpret the Torah based on common sense which leaves room to interpretation by those who know more than us.

Would you have preferred the OP drop dead?
Or she pass out and chas vshalom her kids injure themselves?
Kol hakavod to her for having the ability to think rationally and to do the safest most correct thing FOR THAT MOMENT.

goodmorning

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 10:24 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

It is so odd to me that that is written in response to my fairly academic post about whether eating chatzi shiurim is d'Oraisa or d'rabanan, especially since it clearly stated "With the disclaimer that obviously one violates the d'Oraisa in the case of pikuach nefesh." It's hard for me to understand how you get from that I'd prefer that OP drop dead.

amother

Brown

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 10:25 pm

Granted I’m pregnant but I was told that if I felt weaker than usual or really dizzy and lying down didn’t help I could do shiurim. I don’t think you should feel so guilty because many rabbanim would tell someone who is blacking out to drink shiurim. However I do think you should talk to your Rav for your own peace of mind and to know what to do if Gd forbid it happens again.

amother

Mint

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 10:39 pm

goodmorning wrote:

If OP or any person for that matter has done something which they feel is questionable, causing them anxiety, guilt, fear or frustration, in my very humble opinion, it is of ZERO help to present your very well written evidence of what she has just done as potentially being an issur d'Oraysa, and providing your evidence to back you up. While in theory you may be correct, in actuality you aren't, because in her circumstance, and in mine, specifically when I was drinking and eating shiurim as per my Rav, I wasn't being over on anything. I was actually doing a mitzvah by following DAAS TORAH, never mind not doing a D'Oraisa.

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Sep 29 2020, 10:40 pm

lilies wrote:

Not on my side of town.
As I said, I've never heard of this before.

But again, everyone needs to follow their Rav and their own psak.
We can discuss the possible reasons why this is the normative psak for some and not for others.
From what I understand, and I may be wrong, fasting with shiurim is still considered fasting. One cannot drink/eat more that they are told to. That is the point of shiurim.

It is fasting but still eating. For example I man who takes shiurim cannot get an Aliyah for Maftir yonah even if done for legitimate health reasons.

To OP I do think you did the right thing. I always understood someone on the verge of passing out should take shiurim. DH wrote the rules in my machzir in case of an emergency and he isn’t home. It’s not the type of thing you can run and ask a rav in the moment.

Rappel

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 1:41 am

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

You shouldn’t say that without being a rabbi. YK is very serious and no one should break the fast just because you say it’s ok

Yom Kippur is extremely serious. That's why it's important that everyone learn the halachot, including when it's assur to fast.

Raisin

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 6:13 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm sure he'll be supportive, I'm just embarrassed and feel guilty about it.

If you know already you don't fast well, he should not be leaving you alone all day with the kids. He should come home for a bit to give you a break. You fasting takes priority over him being in shul all day.

He should be feeling guilty for not doing this..

You did nothing wrong. Please tell him so that next year you don't land up in the same situation again.

amother

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 8:52 am

Raisin wrote:

I don't fast well but bh this never happened before. I always managed to get by bh. DH davens early and is home most of the day every year. This happened before he came home. I'm almost sure it happened as a result of the caffeine Tylenol suppository which I won't be taking anymore.

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 9:57 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Says me as well.
There's a 5th chelek in the mishna brura which you to refer to as common sense.
If there's a fire in your house on Shabbas, do you just stand there like a moron and watch it consume your house and perhaps that of your attached neighbors?

OP, you did amazing.
You did what was responsible for the moment.
What any prudent, responsible, and any woman with an ounce of common sense would do. And should do.

Signed, a woman who under the guidance of a rav was told to eat/ drink every 9 minutes when not feeling well as I have the same issues you just described. Shiurim means you still fasted. And as I drank and ate I repeated to myself again and again that my Rav owns this, I'm following his psak. And this is my Avodah this yom kippur.

Actually, yes. If there is no sakanas nefashos, you are not allowed to put out a fire to save your property.