Is it lack of emunah?

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amother

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:50 am

Is it lack of emunah to not to declare all your income, when a boss offers to pay less official in order to get more money from the government?

the workplace found a grey area so it should not be illegal.

Is it lacking emunah for people to do this?

It is certainly very tempting but Hashem has enough money and ways to send it to us.
or is it considered hishtadlus?

amother

Green

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:52 am

I would not ask such a question on imamother. Ask your lor.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:56 am

You should think that not having all your income declared could work against you once you get your pension or if chas veshalom the insurance needs to pay your salary...

You are suffering from it, just not now...

Mothers

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

“ Midvar sheker tirchak” is written explicitly in the Torah. This is not a grey area. Lying about income is an out-and-out falsehood designed to take more money than one is legally entitled to. I can’t see how Hashem requires less-than-honest behavior as part of hishtadlus, and I think we can rely on Hashem to take care of us - without resorting to deception and deceit.

WitchKitty

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:59 am

Ask a rav and please come back with the answer. It's a great question!

zaq

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 12:57 pm

Are you saying your boss pays you partly on the books and partly off? Emunah yes, emunah no, chances are it's illegal.

This from https://www.accountingtools.co.....wise:

There are a variety of situations, typically involving very small payments, where the concept is legal. However, any substantial payment from the employing business to an individual that is working off the books is probably illegal until proven otherwise.

Furthermore, no matter what your boss claims about a loophole on HIS side, YOUR failing to declare all your income is illegal. You know how the Feds got Al Capone, the infamous gangster who personified organized crime in Chicago in the 1920s? They never convicted him of any of the murders he committed--but they put him away for TAX EVASION. Yes, you must declare ALL your income, even if you made it by way of murder, blackmail, robbery, gambling, bootlegging, prostitution or babysitting.

Dina demalchuta dina.

bigsis144

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 1:01 pm

If you rephrase this as “does my Divinely-required hishtadlus require Divinely-prohibited sheker?”, the answer seems pretty clearly to be “no”.

amother

Purple

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 2:46 pm

I don’t know about emuna but it sounds like your being complicit in fraud.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 2:52 pm

Is Hashem limited in providing for someone because of financial laws in this world?

I've heard it argued that breaking laws to avoid losing money means one doesn't completely trust that Hashem will be able "open [His] hand and provide the desires of every living thing".

imasoftov

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 4:04 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

I don’t know about emuna but it sounds like your being complicit in fraud.

I think it's a new version of the old line about had HKBH really wanted us not to steal, it wouldn't be written in the Torah, there would be an obscure commentary on the Shulchan Aruch that would say "there are those whose minhag it is to not steal" and then people would take it seriously. In the new version, it would have appeared in a pamplet you get handed outside the tachana merkazit or in a CD given away at the falafel stand, bundled with a story of someone who instead of bringing her neighbor's kupat cholim card to the doctor, admitted that she wasn't a member, and the doctor gave her a miracle cure.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:03 pm

I don't think it is a gray area for not report all income paid to an employee. This is fraud on so many levels - fraud on taxes for the employee AND the employer.

Then the fraud is compounded because it is not even merely to avoid taxes. It is being done in order to be eligible for the employer to take benefits which would not be available if he were accurately recording payroll.

Am I missing something?

How is this in any way a question relating to spiritual matters? No spiritual leader I would have faith in would advise stealing, lying or cheating to enrich myself. A gray area might be where the lie is to protect someone who is in danger - for example.

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:33 pm

It's lack of emmes.

amother

Orange

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:38 pm

Play it straight honesty is the best policy

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