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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Crimson
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 Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:29 pm
| amother [ Beige ] wrote: | | As an admittedly wealthy person, I am insulted that in your minds having money equals arrogance and being shallow.not to mention outright criminal activity. |
You just saw what you wanted to see, or you just mention what you deem negative here...
There are a few quite sensitive posts on this thread, about rich people giving tzadaka, about rich people worrying who their true friends are, etc...
In my first post, I made a special effort to see the rich person's perspective and not just to give in to the comedic spirit...
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amother
Tangerine
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:31 pm
| amother [ Oak ] wrote: | I posted earlier, but think it bears repeating. (And, just to make things clear, I am baruch Hashem in a very nice place financially. I'm speaking from clear-eyed observation, not jealousy.)
Poor people also have troubles, but those troubles are exacerbated by the lack of money.
If a rich person has cancer, she doesn't have to worry who will clear her house or how she'll get to her treatments. Rich people can afford to take off work to be with family in times of illness. If a death befalls the family, they can afford therapy for the survivors. And on and on.
Yes, rich people have tragedies, but no more than poor people do, and the rich are in a far better position to withstand their troubles. That's just the truth, and I think we ought to acknowledge it. |
THIS.
Perhaps those who never experienced being poor simply can't fathom what it feels like when you worry 24/7 for your very basics like utilities, a roof over ones head, food, a good doctor etc
We had times when we were poor, times when we were really comfortable though not rich rich and now we're poor again. Being very comfortable CAN NOT compare in any way to being poor. Nearly everything is easier when you have money.
The chasam softer famously said "80% of problems can be solved with money". He therefor did shidduchim for his children with rich people.
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Rena K
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:34 pm
| amother [ Oak ] wrote: |
Yes, rich people have tragedies, but no more than poor people do, and the rich are in a far better position to withstand their troubles. That's just the truth, and I think we ought to acknowledge it. |
I disagree with your point that rich people have tragedies no more than poor people do. Hashem evens it out. So if the money makes the challenge easier, Hashem makes the challenge harder, all else equal.
By the way, there are many tzedakah organizations for people with medical issues, children with special needs, fertility, etc. We are told all the time, if you donate money, these people can be helped. Of course money helps, with almost everything!! What I am just saying is that at the end of the day, it has to be fair. And Hashem makes it fair.
I was just thinking that sometimes I thank Hashem for physical pain. Because without it, I wouldn't know when I need to take more care of myself (e.g., it's cold, I'd better take a coat next time). When the challenges Hashem gives us hurt, we are compelled to do something, often that helps us become better. Sometimes rich people have challenges that don't hurt. It's hard for them to "feel" the need to overcome the challenge, and often they ascend to Heaven without much to show for their lives. So, viewed in that way, a life with "happy" challenges can be harder to live well than a life with "painful" challenges...
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amother
Tangerine
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:36 pm
I want to add that when I see or think about a rich person I silently hope for them to be even more rich.
Rich people have not taken away anything from me. If anything they have given to society a lot and the poor end up benefiting too. For example donated shul's, chesed organizations etc.
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Rena K
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:43 pm
| amother [ Tangerine ] wrote: | I want to add that when I see or think about a rich person I silently hope for them to be even more rich.
Rich people have not taken away anything from me. If anything they have given to society a lot and the poor end up benefiting too. For example donated shul's, chesed organizations etc. |
That's one way to look at it. Some people don't like wealthy people because they are jealous, etc. There are old societal issues with class, feeling left out or marginalized. Some people think rich people hog money, take advantage of others, etc. In the end, if someone is successful, likely he didn't take money from anyone, and is actually helping those around him.
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amother
Cerise
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:49 pm
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Depends how a person got wealthy. Unfortunately, it is not always by contributing to society.
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amother
Tangerine
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:55 pm
| amother [ Cerise ] wrote: | | Depends how a person got wealthy. Unfortunately, it is not always by contributing to society. |
We can't really know for sure if anyone contributed to society. Many give tzedaka quietly and no one knows about it.
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carnation
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:00 pm
Unfortunately I'm on the receiving end now. Believe me there are amazing rich people out there. Just this past sukkos someone donated to my family a beautiful luxury sukkah. He asked us to promise that we won't tell anyone.
At the same time I have a rich aquaintance who has seen our terrible suffering for years now and did not reach out in any way to help.
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amother
Beige
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:04 pm
[quote="Abi6"]Just curious what a private forum for the super wealthy would look like.
Going back to the original question.
A real forum for the super wealthy may look like this.
" looking for a plumber in brooklyn"
" dessert ideas for sukkos"
"Dentist for kids in borough park"
"How do I make my mother in law understand"
" looking for 40 people to bake challah"
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Zehava
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:06 pm
| Rena K wrote: | I disagree with your point that rich people have tragedies no more than poor people do. Hashem evens it out. So if the money makes the challenge easier, Hashem makes the challenge harder, all else equal.
By the way, there are many tzedakah organizations for people with medical issues, children with special needs, fertility, etc. We are told all the time, if you donate money, these people can be helped. Of course money helps, with almost everything!! What I am just saying is that at the end of the day, it has to be fair. And Hashem makes it fair.
I was just thinking that sometimes I thank Hashem for physical pain. Because without it, I wouldn't know when I need to take more care of myself (e.g., it's cold, I'd better take a coat next time). When the challenges Hashem gives us hurt, we are compelled to do something, often that helps us become better. Sometimes rich people have challenges that don't hurt. It's hard for them to "feel" the need to overcome the challenge, and often they ascend to Heaven without much to show for their lives. So, viewed in that way, a life with "happy" challenges can be harder to live well than a life with "painful" challenges... |
Playing god aren’t we. Glad you know exactly how he operates.
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amother
Beige
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:10 pm
I dont worry who my true friends are, and the tzedaka I give doesn't have silly questions attached like "who to name on the building we donated". My kids don't carry around bundles of cash to buy drugs with.
Get the subtle messages within these attempts to know my life? This is what I find bothersome
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amother
Wheat
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:12 pm
| Zehava wrote: | | Playing god aren’t we. Glad you know exactly how he operates. |
Yeah. Thanks.
That was bothering me.
Who says Hashem gives fair? He gives just (what we each need) and that is challenging to accept.
But fair?
I always understood that Hashem is like a parent. Fair would be glasses and braces and tonsils removed for all the children. Just would be glasses for those who need, braces for those who need, tonsils out for those who need. And possibly a child needs all the "pain" or none. That's just.
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amother
Teal
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:14 pm
| Rena K wrote: | I disagree with your point that rich people have tragedies no more than poor people do. Hashem evens it out. So if the money makes the challenge easier, Hashem makes the challenge harder, all else equal.
By the way, there are many tzedakah organizations for people with medical issues, children with special needs, fertility, etc. We are told all the time, if you donate money, these people can be helped. Of course money helps, with almost everything!! What I am just saying is that at the end of the day, it has to be fair. And Hashem makes it fair.
I was just thinking that sometimes I thank Hashem for physical pain. Because without it, I wouldn't know when I need to take more care of myself (e.g., it's cold, I'd better take a coat next time). When the challenges Hashem gives us hurt, we are compelled to do something, often that helps us become better. Sometimes rich people have challenges that don't hurt. It's hard for them to "feel" the need to overcome the challenge, and often they ascend to Heaven without much to show for their lives. So, viewed in that way, a life with "happy" challenges can be harder to live well than a life with "painful" challenges... |
It's nice to have such a high level of emunah and bitachin, but I'm afraid this just isn't true.
You say that "Hashem evens it out"? Do you really believe that? You find that people that are wealthy have problems elsewhere, and people that are poor have fewer problems elsewhere so that overall, yidden have the same amount of problems? This is just false. Hashem is mysterious and his ways are mysterious. Some people are benched with endless bracha and others have endless suffering. Hashem doesn't "even it out". How could you make this argument?
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amother
Fuchsia
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:16 pm
Was by a wedding and someone asked me if my necklace was "Real",
What in the world does that mean?!
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chanchy123
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:27 pm
| Rena K wrote: | I disagree with your point that rich people have tragedies no more than poor people do. Hashem evens it out. So if the money makes the challenge easier, Hashem makes the challenge harder, all else equal.
By the way, there are many tzedakah organizations for people with medical issues, children with special needs, fertility, etc. We are told all the time, if you donate money, these people can be helped. Of course money helps, with almost everything!! What I am just saying is that at the end of the day, it has to be fair. And Hashem makes it fair.
I was just thinking that sometimes I thank Hashem for physical pain. Because without it, I wouldn't know when I need to take more care of myself (e.g., it's cold, I'd better take a coat next time). When the challenges Hashem gives us hurt, we are compelled to do something, often that helps us become better. Sometimes rich people have challenges that don't hurt. It's hard for them to "feel" the need to overcome the challenge, and often they ascend to Heaven without much to show for their lives. So, viewed in that way, a life with "happy" challenges can be harder to live well than a life with "painful" challenges... |
I agree that being rich doesn’t make you immune to pain and suffering, and there is pain and hardship specially associated with being rich. However, hardship is not distributed evenly among people, while everyone does have challenges, some people’s challenges are objectively harder. I find that some people really have a heavier load to carry and it usually will have a basket of issues such as bad shalom Bayit, bad healthy, troubled childhood, parnassa issues - what if you add some trauma and maybe mental health issues?
A lot of times one issue will lead to another, not always. But yeah, once you combine any of these with being poor it will usually make matters worse.
It is always better to be rich and heathy than poor and ill. That’s life. However if you take an individual poor person and an individual wealthy person, there is no telling who is happier.
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imorethanamother
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:33 pm
| amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote: | Was by a wedding and someone asked me if my necklace was "Real",
What in the world does that mean?! |
I always say yes without missing a beat.
It is not a hallucination, and if it is, we are clearly suffering from shared delusional disorder. Which means we have bigger problems.
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amother
Crimson
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:43 pm
| amother [ Beige ] wrote: | I dont worry who my true friends are, and the tzedaka I give doesn't have silly questions attached like "who to name on the building we donated". My kids don't carry around bundles of cash to buy drugs with.
Get the subtle messages within these attempts to know my life? This is what I find bothersome |
But you are not the only wealthy person in the world...
What I wrote were mostly quotations from wealthy people I know...
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amother
Cerise
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:47 pm
| amother [ Tangerine ] wrote: | | We can't really know for sure if anyone contributed to society. Many give tzedaka quietly and no one knows about it. |
What does giving tzedaka have to do with it?
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amother
Beige
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Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:48 pm
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Then I'm sorry to say that they need to get their priorities straight. Wealthy or not .
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