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Forum -> Children's Health
Any pediatrician or endocrinologist here?or a.o know abtTSH
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 12:44 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
T4 was high? That could indicate hyperthyroidism.

What are symptoms?
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:25 pm
amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:
What are symptoms?


Generally, with hyperT the TSH will be obviously below range. But if the T4 is trending high, I'd want a doctor to monitor doing a full thyroid panel. How often, I don't know, definitely check sooner than 3 months.
Symptoms of hyperthyroidism can include weight loss, insomnia, diarrhea, anxiety, anger, peeling nails, and thyroid eye disease.
Don't get nervous, just stay on top of it.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:40 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
like I said before, I dont even need the referral for my health insurance. I'm more concerned with my dr finding out I'm going against his recommendation to ignore it...


So, be upfront!

Call and say you're still concerned, and are seeking a second opinion.

Zehu.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:46 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Generally, with hyperT the TSH will be obviously below range. But if the T4 is trending high, I'd want a doctor to monitor doing a full thyroid panel. How often, I don't know, definitely check sooner than 3 months.
Symptoms of hyperthyroidism can include weight loss, insomnia, diarrhea, anxiety, anger, peeling nails, and thyroid eye disease.
Don't get nervous, just stay on top of it.


Wow I see you have a real interest in the topic Wink Do you know the symptoms of hypothyroidism? Would anger and distractibility be included? I was also concerned about fatigue at the start of this when I first ran labs. Now he still has trouble getting up in the morning but he doesn't go to sleep early enough .
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:55 pm
I had the same results Op With TSH of 6.4 wine all other numbers in the thyroid panel like T4 and T3 were normal but I was 24 years old and female. My doc said that some docs will do nothing unless the TSH is above 10. However because I’m female and of child bearing age he put me on meds right away because it could be problematic if I get pregnant. He also then tested me for an antibody that shows if the person has hashimotos. This is a auto immune disorder that causes the body to basically attack the thyroid. If a person has this then they need to medicate because it’s for life and it won’t go away. And there’s no point in making the thyroid work harder when it needs to when it’s being attacked. I would recommend this test as it’s the most common Cause of elevated TSH in young people. I happen to not be positive for this but still take meds because of the above
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 2:01 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Wow I see you have a real interest in the topic Wink Do you know the symptoms of hypothyroidism? Would anger and distractibility be included? I was also concerned about fatigue at the start of this when I first ran labs. Now he still has trouble getting up in the morning but he doesn't go to sleep early enough either. Wink

And to update. I put in a call to a recommended pediatric endocrinologist. I told the secretary the situation and asked if those numbers warrant further investigating, since my ped thougth they were ok but I wanted to know if a specialist would look into it more. I also wanted to know if would we normally go for labs before a first appt. She will be getting back to me. So either she'll say no concern or he's doing virtual apts so she'll set me up with a virtual appointment to start. Thank you everyone for helping with this info. And I think initially I won't have them send any records to the other dr. and only if there is an issue I'll include my dr in the loop and I'll figure out what to say at that point. I dont think he'll be upset, I think in the end he'll be happy I used my mom gut to check it out if there's an issue. just no point having him involved if it's nothing at all.
yes those can all be symptoms of hypothyroid
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 4:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Wow I see you have a real interest in the topic Wink Do you know the symptoms of hypothyroidism? Would anger and distractibility be included? I was also concerned about fatigue at the start of this when I first ran labs. Now he still has trouble getting up in the morning but he doesn't go to sleep early enough either. Wink

And to update. I put in a call to a recommended pediatric endocrinologist. I told the secretary the situation and asked if those numbers warrant further investigating, since my ped thougth they were ok but I wanted to know if a specialist would look into it more. I also wanted to know if would we normally go for labs before a first appt. She will be getting back to me. So either she'll say no concern or he's doing virtual apts so she'll set me up with a virtual appointment to start. Thank you everyone for helping with this info. And I think initially I won't have them send any records to the other dr. and only if there is an issue I'll include my dr in the loop and I'll figure out what to say at that point. I dont think he'll be upset, I think in the end he'll be happy I used my mom gut to check it out if there's an issue. just no point having him involved if it's nothing at all.


He's a teenager dealing with discomfort so you might see anger but fatigue and malaise (depression, but not clinical) is more likely.

My interest is experience. I've written enough that it's no secret that I've dealt with hyperthyroidism. Having checked out boards here and there over the years, I've seen a lot of hypo stuff and learned a bit about hypo too. As I say, all this is ABCs to any competent endo though you wouldn't know.

If I you were you, I would google your state + thyroid support group. AFAIK all states have thyroid support groups, and the moderators/leaders will probably know their stuff. I would also call Echo, if you're in NY Shuki Berman, etc. for references for an endo.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 20 2020, 4:53 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
I had the same results Op With TSH of 6.4 wine all other numbers in the thyroid panel like T4 and T3 were normal but I was 24 years old and female. My doc said that some docs will do nothing unless the TSH is above 10. However because I’m female and of child bearing age he put me on meds right away because it could be problematic if I get pregnant. He also then tested me for an antibody that shows if the person has hashimotos. This is a auto immune disorder that causes the body to basically attack the thyroid. If a person has this then they need to medicate because it’s for life and it won’t go away. And there’s no point in making the thyroid work harder when it needs to when it’s being attacked. I would recommend this test as it’s the most common Cause of elevated TSH in young people. I happen to not be positive for this but still take meds because of the above



Re the bolded: Banging head Banging head Banging head At wits end At wits end At wits end At wits end At wits end At wits end Those doctors will probably commit some level of malpractice at some point in their careers.
Antibody testing (probably TPO, I don't know much about this) is u seful but again, to determine dosing, a doctor needs to know how much thyroid hormone is circulating and how the the thyroid is processing the hormones. (I.e. is the thyroid converting T4 to T3 effectively. When I was very hyper, my T4 was above range but my T3 was scary high, that's how hyper I was. T3 IS IMPORTANT INFO!)Both T4 and T3 are necessary for that.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Oct 21 2020, 4:54 pm
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 11:43 am
PinkFridge wrote:
I just want to add, YES, OP go for further testing.
I get my blood work done at the hospital lab by dr.'s connected to. I sometimes have a longer wait. (I always get blood work BEFORE the appointment, something good to do if your son is diagnosed and sees his doctor on a regular basis.) The results are posted in the portal and I get a notification right away. Having full access to the results and ranges is really helpful.


UPDATE. l want to say thank you for the info.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
UPDATE. l want to say thank you for the info. let's just say it's a good thing I listened to you. the latest labs show much higher TSH plus antibodies. Crying waiting for the call from the pediatric endo. now I need some encouragement please. is medicine alone always enough? or will we need alternative/functional medicine in addition. I understand it's auto-immune, should he be getting immune support supplements in addtion to just the hormone replacement? I'm still reeling from seeing the results, I'm pretty shocked. I guess I should be grateful we caught it right at the upswing!
aiui, synthroid replaces just 1 of the hormones, natural desiccated hormone like armour etc replaces more and mimics full function better, but has kashrut issues. There is also synthetic replacement of the other hormone that synthroid doesn’t cover, but many drs don’t bring it up ever? In any case, all these replacements are very important but basically just replace the function of the thyroid but don’t heal the cause of the dysfunction. That being said, reversing autoimmunity is very very difficult, and throwing some immune supporting supplements is not going to cut it. AIP gut healing diet is more likely to work but very hard to implement. You can read more in the thyroid connection by dr Amy Myers
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:17 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
curious what's your background? medical or experience with yourself or your child? I already asked my dr about it and he said it's no problem. how do I go about it if he doesn't think it's a problem? I can't just tell him to write me a lab slip...


I haven't read the whole thread bc these things make me Banging head but

YES you can. you are the consumer. you are the customer. the DOCTOR is the provider. you can demand whatever you want. insurance will likely pay for it, these are standard tests, so there is no reason a dr shouldnt write a prescription for you. and if he doesn't, go somewhere else.

YOU CAN FIRE YOUR DOCTOR. you can even doctor shop. shocking stuff, I know.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:19 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
UPDATE. l want to say thank you for the info. let's just say it's a good thing I listened to you. the latest labs show much higher TSH plus antibodies. Crying waiting for the call from the pediatric endo. now I need some encouragement please. is medicine alone always enough? or will we need alternative/functional medicine in addition. I understand it's auto-immune, should he be getting immune support supplements in addtion to just the hormone replacement? I'm still reeling from seeing the results, I'm pretty shocked. I guess I should be grateful we caught it right at the upswing!


1. don't get synthroid, get a natural compound, this requires a functional dr
2. eliminate gluten, dairy and sugar for autoimmune
3. an "autoimmune" multivitamin does nothing
stopthethyroidmadness.com
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amother
Jade


 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:22 pm
Check thyroid antibodies. It could be hashimotos and even with sub clinical hypothyroid (which is what your son has) he still needs treatment. I’m a doc and parent of kid with hashimotos
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:37 pm
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
aiui, synthroid replaces just 1 of the hormones, natural desiccated hormone like armour etc replaces more and mimics full function better, but has kashrut issues. There is also synthetic replacement of the other hormone that synthroid doesn’t cover, but many drs don’t bring it up ever? In any case, all these replacements are very important but basically just replace the function of the thyroid but don’t heal the cause of the dysfunction. That being said, reversing autoimmunity is very very difficult, and throwing some immune supporting supplements is not going to cut it. AIP gut healing diet is more likely to work but very hard to implement. You can read more in the thyroid connection by dr Amy Myers


Synthroid replaces T4. It's often enough for most people since T4 is used by the thyroid both as T4 and some converts to T3. But it's not always enough for people and some people do need T3 replacement too. (Dr. Ridha Arem explains this really well in The Thyroid Solution.)

Generally T4 in the form of synthroid is enough. But there are people for whom it's not and don't let any dr. tell you that testing T3 isn't necessary. But then, how does one get T3? There are two ways: Synthetic T3 taken in addition to the T4 (such as synthroid) or natural, I.e. dessicated animal thyroid which has both hormones. Re the latter, people love it. And bH it exists as an option. But too many people who aren't doing well on synthroid alone but have no idea of the mechanics say yes, go for the dessicated stuff, but if they don't understand the mechanics of getting a full thyroid panel and understanding their labs, they still might not feel optimal.

I know, I'm paraphrasing the poster I snipped but I'd rather err on the side of caution.

I don't know a lot about hypo. I'd have no problem taking hormone replacement for life, and I know of at least one kid, a friend's child, who has congenital hypothyroidism and is doing great. Here's what I would want in your shoes:
- a doctor who will do a full thyroid panel
- access to labs
- an understanding of hypothyroidism and yes, what you can do to support thyroid health. Draconian diets are hard on kids so I don't think I'd make major changes, especially since meds work well. (Again, cobalt and I are on the same page.)

Hatzlacha!
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:42 pm
Amother cobalt and amother ecru had great points. Main thing is DO NOT ACCEPT SYNTHROID OR LEVOTHYROXINE AS TREATMENT. If you post your area, someone maybe can help you find a Dr who will prescribe desiccated thyroid hormone such as armour.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Nov 04 2020, 11:24 pm
my son would really not appreciate a diet so I'm grateful for the honesty regarding that and supplements.

I have a few questions, please bear with me as I work through this information and my bunch of questions. I know I can ask my dr, but I'd rather go in with some information in hand. (my ped endo is highly recommended BH, but still Wink)

So he checked T4 free, TSH, Thyroglobulin Antibody and Thyroid Peroxidase Ab. High on everything except T4 which is the lowest number of the normal range. He did not check T3. Do I request that he do it now, or on his next round of labs to see how he's doing after being on the hormone replacement medication?

I see the recommendation of armour in a couple posts. my son can't swallow pills, the dr said the brand name of the medicine he was going to prescribe (I'm assuming the synthetic) can be chewed. Do you know if armour can be chewed too?

Is armour only if T3 is also not within normal range or still better than the synthetic regardless of the T3 level?

Is it reasonable to try the synthetic first before armour, or is the recommendation here to go with armour from the start?

If trying the synthetic, would we switch to armour if his numbers aren't looking good or would the switch be if he doesn't feel good? He doesn't know he has this problem, so I wonder would he even notice a change in the way he feels...?

Thanks so much for all the advice.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 05 2020, 8:19 am
anonymrs wrote:
Amother cobalt and amother ecru had great points. Main thing is DO NOT ACCEPT SYNTHROID OR LEVOTHYROXINE AS TREATMENT. If you post your area, someone maybe can help you find a Dr who will prescribe desiccated thyroid hormone such as armour.


Again, Armour is great, but I still want to stress to OP that she needs to learn some basics about the mechanics of thyroid so she'll be able to monitor the bloodwork. Many people do well with synthroid/levothyroxine (I.e. synthetic T4) PLUS synthetic T3.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 05 2020, 8:40 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Again, Armour is great, but I still want to stress to OP that she needs to learn some basics about the mechanics of thyroid so she'll be able to monitor the bloodwork. Many people do well with synthroid/levothyroxine (I.e. synthetic T4) PLUS synthetic T3.


Is T3 always needed or is that just if his T3 levels are off?

I stated reading up abt the thyroid...

Also how would we know if the synthetic is not working out well for him? Blood work? Or the way he feels?

really grateful for all your responses. So glad we caught it just as it was getting much worse
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amother
Denim


 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:18 pm
OP....
have you found a good male Pediatric Endocrinologist? Id love to hear who if you did. Im looking for one for my son too...
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