Should I encourage my DH to go to minyan when...

malki2

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:17 am

zaq wrote:

Do you have a source? This is in perfect alignment with my personal philosophy, but it sure would be nice to have a verifiable source.

Also I was never taught that I have to look after my dh food and clothes, etc. If I read my ketubah correctly, it's his responsibility to supply ME with my gashmiyusdik needs such as food, clothing etc.

You don’t need to provide the money to him the gashmiyus, but you need to be the one to see the clothes and cook the food. That’s in the Mishna in Kesubos. And, as I stated before, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that you have zero responsibility for your husband’s ruchniyus.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:27 am

OP, does your DH understand that the mitzva to daven with a minyan is greater than the mitzva to daven with kavana? We don't just do the mitzvot that are the most comfortable or convenient. We do them because they are commandments, not suggestions.

I'm not saying you should be the one to point that out to him, but maybe he's not understanding the halacha correctly - as you say that he doesn't have a rabbi.

What problem is he having with davening in the street? You don't need to be 20 feet apart. 6 feet is the rule. If he's outside, he can use a face shield instead of a mask. If there are women walking around who are not dressed tznius, that is obviously a huge problem, and there's definitely something that should be done, like moving the minyan somewhere else. If children are running up and down the sidewalk playing, I can see how that could be a problem, too.

Maybe if you tried to trouble shoot what was bothering your DH, and you could find a rabbi to help him, things could change. Whatever you do, be a helpmate, and make sure that he doesn't think that your are criticizing him.

malki2

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:55 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

FF, are you sure about this? I think that if someone has kavana with a minyan, but he might have a little more kavana if davening alone, the benefits of the communal davening outweigh the minor increase in kavana. But if someone really doesn’t have good kavana, it’s not really a davening. BTW there were a number of great tzadikim who almost never davened with a minyan because of the kavana they had when davening alone.

amother

Rose

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:56 am

I grew up my father spent his entire day learning we lived a real kollel life. When I got married to a long term learner I assumed he would learn like my father all day and in his spare time. What I didn't realize it took my father years of learning to get to that point. So in the beginning of my marriage I became my husband's mashgiach. It totally backfired. I learnt from then on not to tell my husband when to get up for shachris or to learn and to accept him for the way he is and let him do what HE feels comfortable doing and I continue to support in a positive way and encourage him on his terms when to learn or not or when to get up etcetera. Over the years he has grown and it is amazing to see. I look back and realize I was on a dangerous path of being my husband's mashgiach and it could have been way worse had I not stopped! Give your husband space were all different and connect to H-shem in different ways.let him grow in the way he feels is best for him.

amother

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:06 pm

Thanks for the input again. My DH has a problem with the LOR currently and I can't imagine that is going to change any time soon. We live in a small OOT community and since it's small, the minyan is mostly made up of retirees and very few men my DH's age; although there are men his age in our community. Sadly, they just don't go to weekday minyan.

when the minyan was indoors and things were normal, my DH would go. He would do it as a duty but he didn't have much kevaneh then either. Now, he literally resents going to minyan because he feels everything is overkill. Distraction of being outside. The 6 feet apart. The masks. He doesn't think it is necessary. (whole other discussion).

On the other hand, when he doesn't go to minyan, he isn't davening at home either. And like I pointed out, it's hard for me to daven formally. Sometime I just might say the Shema or sometimes Amidah or even just the morning blessings. But sometimes I just bench and that's it.

It's not ideal.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:09 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hugs.
I think corona's bringing a lot of things to a head. Hatzlacha!

Mothers

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 11:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

the minyan is still not inside the shul building and the location makes him uncomfortable and he is unable to have a shred of kavanah?

I very much dislike davening from the siddur these days. I just can't make myself to do it. So, although I have encouraged my DH to go to minyan in the past (especially when he is in a slump and feeling uninspired), I don't now.

Should I? Is this one of my roles as a wife?

It’s not your role to pressure (I.e. nag and otherwise make things unpleasant for) him, but what’s wrong with encouraging him?

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 19 2020, 3:16 am

#Happymom wrote:

Something really important that has helped me a lot,
It is not our job to be our husbands mashgiach. Period.
After 120, all we'll be asked is if we looked after our husbands gashmious, food, clothes etc, and our own ruchniyous.

Im sorry, after 120 years we will not be asked if we looked after our husband's clothing and food etc. If you learned that in sem (as I saw further down thread) it is possible that they were trying to instill something specific to you girls, but there is NO halacha to this affect.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:34 pm

imasinger wrote:

How about this?

"As long as you're not going to shul, could we please all daven together as a family? You, me, kids that are old enough? It would mean so much to me."

I read this last week and decided to try it on Friday.
(He didn’t know it was Rosh Chodesh, so I told him at like noon. He told me oh it’s too late I forgot, I said it’s not too late you can still say hallel and mussaf. He said ok and I asked him if he wants to sing it together as a family and he said no I just want to say it)

*I make it a point NOT to be his mashgiach. If he even thinks I am he gets ticked off. But on shiva Assad btamuz he forgot it was a fast day & when he found out he asked me if I knew and why I didn’t tell him. Its not my responsibility, but I decided to tell him this time.

Oh well 😢

Hashem put me In this situation and He’s holding my hand.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:47 pm

malki2 wrote:

First of all you can't compare a regular guy with tzadikim of previous generations. We can assume their kavana at home was in a completely different realm.

I agree with FF. Unless one can honestly say that I have tried working on my kavana (and I mean working on it really - ex learning some mussar or a tefillah sefer) then it's very scary to push aside the chiyuv of davening with a minyan by saying I don't have enough kavana when doing so so I will daven by myself. That has to be weighed very carefully with daas Torah.

NOT that I'm saying that the OP should say anything to her DH. She is not his mashgiach. I just feel that when everyone defends going against Halacha based on emotions or trying to make the OP feel better, halacha becomes less chamur. That's all.

amother

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 8:28 am

My initial question has lead to this painful confession of much deeper issues.

My DH has bigger problems then no kavanah at outdoor minyan. His problems affect the family and I really don't know how to deal with it or help. We both learned that davening with a minyan outweighs one's comfort of davening alone. So he knows this.

But he is an expert at "merely existing" from years growing up and being told he wasn't good enough. He has learned to go numb. To avoid discomfort, he avoids many things now and he does this by escapism. He knows full well that it is better to bench, better to learn Torah everyday, better to surround himself with people who are dedicated to living a Torah true life. But because he feels inadequate and even guilty for not being "good enough" and thus feels no comfort in doing these things, he avoids them. He gets lost in videos and talk radio shows. He surrounds himself with friends who are easy to be with, who don't go to shul, who talk about mundane things and even inappropriate things.

I guess ultimately my big problem is that he is co-dependent and any major decision in life about our family, about him, has defaulted to me. We have tried counseling. He has tried counseling. Never seems to lead anywhere and is never sustained.

If I see that something is happening with the kids, I am the one who addresses it and figures out how to fix it. If I see our relationship is in a rut with my DH, I try to address it and do things to make things better. I try to work on myself when I'm in a rut. My day to day life is focused on how to make things better. But I have become my DH's "cruise director". And since I've realized that and tried to stop directly encouraging him to daven (which was not frequently but did happen) or go to minyan, he is more than happy to sit back and avoid all of it. This makes me depressed. Makes me feel hopeless. My children see this and are already comfortable with not davening, going to shul and escaping every day to videos and other things.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 9:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hugs!
He needs to be built up, and may need a professional to do this. Not that you can't do a lot yourself.
I'm going to share with you the contents of the link I just mentioned. I've heard this before and it's interesting how it's framed, either as chizuk or fire and brimstone how can you not go to minyan. It's a great thought.

Rav J. D. Soloveitchik, zt"l, was at a symphony performance and noticed how the triangle player had 3 moments and that was it. He spoke to the triangle player and asked about his training and compensation for his brief performance, as he (the Rav) couldn't imagine it was anywhere near that of other members of the orchestra (e.g. violin, piano). The musician was quite miffed. "Do you know how important my contribution was at each of those particular times? It wouldn't have been the same without me."

The Rav then said, this explains a gemara that says that someone who doesn't attend his local minyan isn't a shachein tov. (This was apropos to some pesukim in Yirmiyahu.) Because every person in the minyan has his contribution. What the triangle player brings is no less important. Anyone who won't there be will be missed.

This can be framed in a positive way. And it's a concept that goes beyond minyan. I hope your husband gets back to where he needs to be.

Blidar,,,

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 6:40 am

zaq wrote:

I love this ..."Do you have a source?" "Do you have a source?"
Listen guys... no one went up there and came back to tell us what they will ask... No one..
The gemarrah itself struggles with what they will ask ... will it be "Did you deal honestly?" "did you set aside time for Torah?"
But those questions are directed towards men ... not women .....
My humble opinion is that stop worrying what they will ask you, because no one knows...
Make a Torah home .. treat everyone including your husband with respect ... and they won't ask you a thing!

Blidar,,,

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 6:41 am

zaq wrote:

imasinger

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 6:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Just saw this now, when this thread got bumped.

Where are you, 3 months later?

Given the bolded, I'd encourage you to seek individual counseling for yourself, for clarity and help.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 8:02 am

Blidar,,, wrote:

I understand about the Torah quesiton. But why do you think the other questions will only be directed towards men? I am sure women willl also be questioned.