“Just follow rules” they cried

amother

Red

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 4:43 pm

I work with the addiction, mental health and homeless population. Including plenty of frum clients. Yes, COVID hit our clients pretty hard. No in person AA meetings with lack of support and sober peers definitely puts people at risk. Add in job loss, boredom, sickness, anxiety over sickness etc--- it correlates with higher relapse/increased use rate.
Where I work we are required to have a quarantine bedroom set aside so while technically we have to accept a smaller number of individuals we also haven't been full. We are a popular place and used to have a waiting list. Some is due to being "so entrenched" in their substance use that they can't make it in to admit themselves. But that is the case always! We have always had no shows. But we have had a lot more AMAs. How much is due to covid? It is complicated... But coved has had an impact but not all can be rectified by having stores reopen- AA meetings that are open to all, in private indoor places (for the anonymous part of AA), the repetition of the Serentiy prayer, people donating money to pay for the rent, snacks and drink availability... CANT happen. Zoom is all that they can have because yes, you might have a max of 10 people for your meeting but according to AA can you really turn away someone who wants sobriety?

There has not been enough mental health treatment and hospital beds for at least a decade. No hospital I know keeps people who can't get into shelters. They are still kicking people out who are homeless. And not admitting individuals who are clearly suicidal (plan, intent, ideation and desire to follow through) like always due to lack of space. This isn't due to covid. This is always.

Yes, we need to open up when it is safe. And to do it carefully. Wear the masks! Stop having shabbos guests! Stop having birthday parties, get togethers, play dates with everyone and anyone. Stop overcrowding shul. Stop indoor big weddings. Sooner everyone does that, the sooner we can resume AA, sooner addicts and those in recovery can get employed again and we save lives. Too many frum people I know have died from addiction. Heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, meth, alcohol... This is a frum issue too.

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 10:46 pm

China has not eradicated COVID, it is just doing a far better job of controlling things through aggressive measures that would not be tolerated or possible in the US:

"Determined to keep local transmission of the virus at or near zero, China has resorted to comprehensive cellphone tracking of its population, weekslong lockdowns of neighborhoods and cities and costly mass testing in response to even the smallest outbreaks."

From With Covid-19 Under Control, China’s Economy Surges Ahead
- NYT

New Zealand took prompt action to re-lock down Auckland when a mini outbreak began again due to people who had returned from Australia and not followed the appropriate protocols in place upon return: New Zealand 'Beat the Virus Again,' Prime Minister Declares

Iceland used effective contact tracing and quarantine policies to help contain the spread- 57% of people who got infected were already in quarantine when they got sick, which meant they weren't out spreading it to the rest of their community.

We never, arguably, got things remotely under control the way other parts of the world did before they allowed themselves tastes of normality. Yes, numbers are rising again dramatically in other countries, but consider that the Australian state of Victoria shut down for 200 cases a day and didn't reopen until they hit 17 cases a day. Massachusetts, where I am, is now routinely posting 500+ per day, without changing anything. It's foolhardy and irresponsible. What we consider "under control" is so remotely far from what other countries tolerate it's incredible.

amother

Olive

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:38 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I live in Brooklyn, and I don’t understand.

-I don’t understand why DH is practically the only one in shul, who is wearing a mask
-I don’t understand why DD’s school has no masks or sd (or why it is social suicide for DD to wear a mask around her friends . . .)
-I don’t understand why kiddush’s, simchos, shul shalosh seudos, shiurim, and learning programs are going as usual with no masks or sd.
-I don’t understand why neighbors keep asking me to put up their Shabbos guests (when we haven’t even had our own children since Purim).
-I don’t understand why Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Simchas Torah went on as usual (with packed shuls and no sd or masks).

There’s a lot I don’t understand.

We live in Brooklyn, and we did not have this virus. We do not have antibodies. I don’t want everything to be locked down, but I don’t understand why our friends and neighbors refuse to acknowledge the potential danger and take (even minimal) precautions to help keep us safe (while keeping everything open).

I could’ve written your post! Couldn’t agree more.

amother

Olive

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:42 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

I feel like telling people who are so proud of their social distancing on their huge front and backyard, to measure 4x4 and then stand there all day. For months. Because... safety. And don't forget to make room for your neighbors in there. Oh and wear a mask there too. You wouldn't want to make a chillul Hashem.

There’s zero excuse for not wearing a mask, SD, not creating chillul Hashem. Zero. Speak to Hashem about your situation and daven but you have no right, no excuse to not abide by the laws and to protect others.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:55 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Open discrimination against Jews in Monsey

https://vosizneias.com/2020/10.....ents/

How is this open discrimination, or any sort of discrimination?

This place is situated in a complex that is often confused to be part of a nearby development. They're often lumped onto the same street, when its actual address is on another street.

So they're saying they're technically not located in a red zone. And they're saying that they are not servicing clients who are supposed to be in lockdown in the red zone. So they're asking for permission to reopen because they were mistakenly shut down and they don't meet the criteria for the lockdown.

Where is the discrimination?

amother

Azure

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 8:52 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

How is this open discrimination, or any sort of discrimination?

This place is situation in a complex that is often confused to be part of a nearby development. They're often lumped onto the same street, when its actual address is on another street.

So they're saying they're technically not located in a red zone. And they're saying that they are not servicing clients who are supposed to be in lockdown in the red zone. So they're asking for permission to reopen because they were mistakenly shut down and they don't meet the criteria for the lockdown.

Where is the discrimination?

We wave that race card so often. Sports-o-rame probably has sports teams there, and other activities that the neighboring constituents outside of Frum Monsey uses on the daily. They're not saying that they wouldn't let in anyone in Monsey.. its just not their clientele. (except for cholhamoed) . If lets say a school that is on the block of the tip of the red zone, and all of the students come from a different zone. I'd imagine they'd make the same request. What is the big incentive for the jewish community to want to have them stay closed? if I can't have my business, you can't have yours? I don't get this childish mentality.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 9:22 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

Sports-O-Rama didnt write the letter. An elected govt official called Ed Day wrote the letter saying that the place should be open because its a non-Jewish business and doesnt cater to Jews, openly admitting that this "lockdown" is a Jewish lockdown only. But I guess its too "childish" for some frum Jews to acknowledge that what is going on in NY is blatant anti-semitism. I guess its too "childish" for Jews to stand up for their rights and not allow themselves to be discriminated against Banging head

tryinghard

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:58 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Again, numbers coming out of China are HIGHLY suspect.
And like I said, New Zealand and Iceland are very different than most countries because they can easily limit incoming travel. You can't compare that to countries with many more access points. It's much more difficult to tamp down an outbreak when there are more cropping up in every other direction.

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

We never, arguably, got things remotely under control the way other parts of the world did before they allowed themselves tastes of normality. Yes, numbers are rising again dramatically in other countries, but consider that the Australian state of Victoria shut down for 200 cases a day and didn't reopen until they hit 17 cases a day. Massachusetts, where I am, is now routinely posting 500+ per day, without changing anything. It's foolhardy and irresponsible. What we consider "under control" is so remotely far from what other countries tolerate it's incredible.

Case numbers are not the most important number. Hospitalization and death rates are far more indicative of the situation on the ground.
It's not fair to say that we never got things under control because you need to look at the US as 50 discrete states. Many states DID get it under control. Some are experiencing their first wave. Some are dealing with second waves, just like many countries in Europe - which are looking worse now than we are.

Mama Bear

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:17 pm

I'm not saying we should be chv locked down, but I take issue with the declaration that the hospitals are empty and they know how to treat the virus.
My uncle is now in the hospital and everything they have done is not helping. he still needs a major refuah sheleima. Tzvi ben dinah.
Finandergashait, R' Zelig Rispler got every single treatment known to man - Remdisivir, convalescent plasma, steroids, blood thinners. He died anyway. It's all beyedei shemayim....

amother

Violet

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:22 pm

Mamabear, R` Zelig Rispler didn't get as much help as you think. Deblasio went to be Menachem avul the family. R` Fishel, the son, complained to Deblasio that its the hospitals fault his father died because of improper care namely the family was not allowed access, the hospital didn't allow private nurse to attend him and more.

Btw, he was in the one hospital in nyc that was supposedly helping covid patients more than the others. And still....

Mama Bear

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:50 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

They didnt allow him access to visitors or a private nurse, but medically they pulled out all stops possible to help him beat the virus but HaShem wanted otherwise.

Someone I'm close with went to be menachem avel as well, so I''m getting my information pretty close to first hand.

amother

Black

Sat, Oct 24 2020, 9:48 pm

C'mon man would not take a chinese vaccine if they paid me! Even Brazil cancelled their order for the Chinese vaccine. Um wonder why...

China is hardly a truthful transparent country no model to which to aspire.

China fought the disease by locking and barring people into their apartments nailing the doors shut and yelling through the door to one old lady they hope the people have enough rice R"L they fumigated people in the streets they let people die in the streets and threw anyone sick into huge warehouses-- all this is on videos from last winter.

China did not give anyone a heads up and barred what would have been lifesaving info, they let people travel to all points of the globe and all around the U.S.

Rather than controlling the virus while sacrificing some of their people they SPREAD IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD!!! Though their top politicos and elite did not seem to get it. Really interesting.