Why Americans happy in israel but Israelies miserable in USA

essie14

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 1:13 am

juggling wrote:

Do you live in RBS and send to a school like this? Admittedly I am not charedi, so there may be schools I don't know about, but I am pretty sure even the most "American" schools also serve Israelis and have Israeli teachers. Yes, there are schools where there is a lot of English spoken, but as far as I know none of them are exclusively American (also, not all English-speakers are from America...). RBS is soft landing, but it is not America, and will 100% involve an adjustment in many ways.

100%.
There are no schools in RBS that cater exclusively to Anglos.
RBS is not America in any way, shape or form. Yes, it's a soft landing, but no, it's not America.

amother

Denim

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 1:40 am

I must say Im impressed some Israelis write english pretty well here!

I couldnt vote as Im American in US but not so happy. I mean I'm a happy person and love my family, but dont like the American culture. People are very shallow - into clothing, and status of family. Judgemental. Also, they are not direct. Often sensitive. Of course, not everyone.

I'm not ready to move to Israel. And every place has disadvantages. But I must say I love love the Israelis. Even the rude ones. They are fun, genuine, and direct. They are also stronger personalities and can handle anything.

Teomima

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 2:47 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

From what I've heard through the grapevine, children, and especially teenagers, have a miserable time adjusting from the US to Israel. Even in these schools that you are referring to. Anybody who moved from the US to Israel as a child who can chime in here?

What do you want to know?

I was a preteen when I came. It was very difficult. I was very resentful for having to leave my home, my school, my friends, and for being put in a situation where I had to struggle with a new environment, new culture, and of course a new language. Both my siblings (one older and one younger) had an easier time adjusting than I did. Back then there were no schools that catered to anglos around where I lived. But with time I managed to adjust. It took several years for me to find my groove. Academically I never caught up and went back to the States for college but after living there 4 years it was an easy decision to return to Israel to start and raise my family. I have no doubts in my mind that this is the best place for me to raise my children.

mandksima

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 4:44 am

Very few religious Israelis will leave Israel permanently because there is the halachic consideration of the issue of it being forbidden to leave Israel permanently, held by many poskim (Rambam, Ramban, Tosefot, Raavad and more). Many hold you can leave to fulfill a few criteria but you must have it in mind to return as soon as you can. Why is this not discussed as a reason why Israelis won't be as happy to stay away?

You can't compare the two really. It is super different coming to live in EY as one can't just pick up and leave without considerations of halacha. And leaving because of circumstances that make it permissible still don't quiet the soul as the soul wants to be in EY so you can get sad and miserable, never finding your place. Choosing to live in America from any other non Israeli county doesn't get complicated halachically. I'm assuming all religious Jews will consider halachic ramifications but honestly I didn't before making aliyah and only learned about the different opinions once living here so I'm not judging anyone, I hope more people are informed more than I was.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:31 am

essie14 wrote:

100%.
There are no schools in RBS that cater exclusively to Anglos.
RBS is not America in any way, shape or form. Yes, it's a soft landing, but no, it's not America.

Yes I live in RBS and my kids’ schools cater to English speaking crowds. There isn’t even one kid in class who doesn’t speak English. Of course some teachers are Israeli but most of them speak English as well.
Never said that RBS is the same as America though- of course not. It’s just as close as it gets and makes aliyah a bit easier for the kids and parents.

LovesHashem

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I know few a family who lived in israel and came back to the US israel. But I it was only couple years as newlyweds so it’s not considered really. She said the life was hard. She told me she had to carry heavy grocery bags on the bus as an example.

If that's the hardest part of her life I'll take it!

If you don't have a car people often have carts to carry groceries or they do a big haul every few weeks and taxi back, and get produce, milk, cottage cheese at the closest makolet.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:02 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

As far as I know, no entire school is made up of olim Smile

But I was really curious to hear what other communities you meant were american?

75% of my high school in RBS was English speaking. I graduated 4 years ago. Yes RBS has plenty of Israelis but there's a huge elderly population that doesn't know Hebrew at all, they have get together and events weekly. My parents and many other olim in their 40's can get by without speaking Hebrew at all.

Rappel

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:14 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Or they order from the supermarket online and get it delivered to their door. The world has advanced, OP. And btw - almost everyone I know has a car, and we use them.

If this is an example of what is holding you in America, then I'm amazed.

Rappel

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:22 am

mandksima wrote:

Well written. Thank you.

LovesHashem

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:22 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I was 14. I was pretty sad at first but that's more because of things going on at home and internal issues. I don't think I would of had it easier in the US adjusting to high school. Hashem sent me the most amazing people.

I know plenty of olim as teens and kids 90 percent of them are happy here. Everyone who had it difficult had underlying issues at home or before moving.

LovesHashem

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:25 am

Rappel wrote:

Having a car is expensive here. I'll be honest. I honestly don't understand how people pay bills in this country. So yeah that's what I find hard. Not the shlepping of bags. I do know a lot of people with cars as well. But many without too. We don't have a car. I wish we would but the expense is not something we can currently afford.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:40 am

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

Ok, again, your school was mostly english speaking because of all of the olim families. That does not mean it was a school for english speakers
But rbs has so many israelis too.
In terms of the lovely elderly population, thats not what we were talking about. We meant kids in school.
And there are many places in israel that have the senior population that doesnt speak the lsnguage. But you can find that in other places and other countries as well.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:42 am

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

Im curious, whats the name of the school?

amother

Magenta

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:57 am

OP, I so get you. I spent 5 years in the US, and it was hard on me. I felt that people just don't connect with you in the same level and depth as they do in Israel. You can't just start being friends with someone you just met. They keep you at arms length. You need to go through a lot of superficial chit chat before you get more friendly. There are so many nuances, so many things you can't say, so much passive aggressive that just flew over my head. I feel like people here are much more nuclear family oriented. "We're doing what's best for our family" is the best excuse not to take other people into account...
After a few years I made some good friends, but I'm so glad I moved back. I just don't feel connected enough to people in the US.

amother

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 8:29 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

You are right.you described it very accurately. It is just like living in a desert for me. Unfortunately I can’t go back because my husband is American and his job his here and my children are Americans and love it here.

Chickensoupprof

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 8:31 am

What I always see with Israelis outside of Israel (in my case in The Netherlands), is that they are always like 'By us in Israel'. Even if they live abroad for decades. Asking me why I don't speak Ivrit ''Well the lingua franca in the Netherlands is Dutch duh', and comparing everything that happens in Israel and Israel does better of.
I know a few people who have difficulties speaking Dutch but like really hard difficulties one woman I know lives here for >15 years doesn't speak one-word Dutch, her husband is also Israeli who speaks Dutch but hates me since I told him off to use cancer as a curse word in the appearance of someone who was dealing with breast cancer at that time and was just widowed oh and I'm a filthy leftie. Anyhoo.. problem is ''all those %#$@ arabs are coming her and don't speak the language'' while they speak misarable Dutch I find that funny don't know if this happens too elsewhere but sometimes I feel like, if u don't speak the language and are complaining about the Dutch.... Why you just don't leave?

So in my experience I think most Israelies outside Israel feel weird and really tied to their homeland when they are frum or really zionist. I also know a few Israelis who literally wanted to escape the ''tense'' country where they are from and want to live a free live.

saw50st8

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 9:24 am

Most Israelis I know who move to the US love sundays off.

I never really thought to ask them if they were specifically happy in the US. They seem about as happy as everyone else around me.

I've heard that Modiin is also a soft landing for Americans.

DrMom

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 10:19 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Let's put things in perspective: Being a teenager is rough anywhere.

It is an age in which you develop strong peer relationships, are under more academic pressure, and have to deal with all sorts of hormonal and other physical changes.

Throwing a major relocation into the mix at this stage certainly makes it more challenging.

If that relocation is to another country (be it Israel, China, Spain, Argentina, Sweden, etc.) with another culture and language, it will be even more challenging.

I don't think moving to Israel is intrinsically more difficult than relocating to any other country in that sense. And if you have an ideological interest in living here, it makes it even easier.

WitchKitty

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 10:34 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

We moved when I was 7. I was in an Israeli school. Took me about 3-4 years to really figure out what was going on with the language.
I had a great time actually.