Source for babies smiling in their sleep?

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amother

Maroon

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:21 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

All I can say is I’m glad I didn’t know about this when I was a new mom with postpartum mental health issues. I would have been much more neurotic than I already was and my family would have paid the price. Especially the sleeping baby who ought to stay sleeping. What age do babies supposedly get to smile in their sleep peacefully?

Also doesn’t your neshama ascend to shamayim when you sleep? Maybe they are smiling at Hashem. Or at least Hashem will protect them from the sheidim.

Yikes to the whole thing. Postpartum anxiety would have been through the roof if I knew about this.

Ditto.

amother

Coral

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:24 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

We used to say, di malachim shpilen mit em. (The angels ae playing with him) No source.

Same. My grandmother would murmur this each time my sleeping newborn son's face flickered

ExtraCredit

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:32 pm

avrahamama wrote:

Chava

His first wife was Lilith.

Can’t believe I never heard of her! I always knew that they were the happiest couple because they were the only ones on earth so they had no one to compare to nor be jealous of. So you’re saying it was second marriage? How’s that for rewriting history? Scratching Head

Ema of 5

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:34 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

I read that babies laugh when they urinate. It’s a reflex. Sorry if it’s supposed to be something holier than that. 😈

Or sometimes when they are gassy or pass gas

bigsis144

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:37 pm

Sources for Lilith, in roughly chronological order:

Yeshaya 34:14
When describing an inhospitable wilderness, the passuk tells us: “There goat-demons shall greet each other, and there the lilit shall find rest.” Some believe this word “lilit” is a reference to a night owl, and others say it is indeed a reference to the demon Lilith.

Talmud Bavli (Shabbat151a)
“It is forbidden for a man to sleep alone in a house, lest Lilith get hold of him.”
Lilith is said to fertilize herself with male sperm to give birth to other demons. (Pretty much the classic definition of a succubus.)

More soon

Ema of 5

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:40 pm

MiriFr wrote:

Ya it’s kabbalistic.
Basically, Lilith was a night demon and raped Adam in his sleep. Got pregnant with Kayin, and then left him for Samael, another demon.
Chava is created and marries Adam. They have Hevel together.

I never heard that part; I always assumed the children were after chava was created. I mean, the pasuk says straight up that chava got pregnant and gave birth to kayin....

FranticFrummie

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:43 pm

Some medrashim are not meant to be taken literally!

I am happy to hear that the majority of posters here have never heard of Lilith. She's a "cautionary tale", and that's all.

I hear of women who have post partum psychosis, and they murder their babies because they think that the child is possessed by a demon, or has been replaced by a demon - and that the demon is going to kill her in her sleep.

What about all those divorced or widowed men who are sleeping alone until they remarry? Lilith must be like a kid in a candy store.

MiriFr

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:44 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

I never heard that part; I always assumed the children were after chava was created. I mean, the pasuk says straight up that chava got pregnant and gave birth to kayin....

Oh wait sorry you’re right. Lilith got pregnant with a daughter who married Kayin.
And Samael looked like Adam and got Chava pregnant with Kayin.
And this whole thing explains why Hashem didn’t accept his korban and only Hevel’s.

Last edited by MiriFr on Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

hodeez

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:45 pm

So I've never gone so far as to wake up my kids because it's so hard to get them to sleep! I was just wondering if this is a legit thing or just some superstition...because I googled it and even mainstream websites speak about the superstition of smiling sleeping babies playing with angels.
Thank you bigsis for the sources for Lilith, that I know is real! Her and Adam's story is fascinating

MiriFr

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:49 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Some people believe that this is the reason that some men *ahem* in their sleep

amother

Apricot

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 5:52 pm

My non-Jewish mom also used to say smiling sleeping babies meant angels were playing with them. Interesting that’s it’s crossed religions. I wonder where this comes from.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 6:42 pm

hodeez wrote:

I was taught in seminary that Adam's first wife plays with children when they sleep and that's why they smile, and they should be woken up. Anyone have a source?

which seminary did you go to? Curious bec this is so “out there” to me, I’m surprised it’s taught.

amother

Pink

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:12 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I hear of women who have post partum psychosis, and they murder their babies because they think that the child is possessed by a demon, or has been replaced by a demon - and that the demon is going to kill her in her sleep.

My father was very busy educating us on all these medrashim and telling us stories of babies possessed by demons and exchanged with baby demons etc. etc.

Lemme tell ya, I had my first baby and I was going crazy. Those creepy thoughts totally overwhelmed me, my own first newborn freaked me out. I remember sitting and nursing my baby alone in my room and feeling like I’m about to have an heart attack. The only thing that kept me sane was the knowledge that all these thoughts are just sick postpartum results of my father’s pointless useless meaningless stories he told his little kids. It took me a long while to get over this sick fear and anger to my father.

As FF said, some medrashim have nothing to do with us, and I’m not sure this is what Hashem wants us to think about.

bigsis144

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:12 pm

Basically, Bereshis describes the creation of humanity TWICE.

In Bereshis 1:27 it says, “And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”
- male and female at the same time

Then in Perek Beis, the story is repeated:
Bereishis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.”
...
Bereishis 2:18 “And the Lord God said, "It is not good that man is alone; I shall make him a helpmate opposite him."

- Etc. Etc. the story of Adam going to sleep and HaShem making Chava out of his rib.

—

In the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 22:7), this repetition/contradiction is explained by saying there were TWO “first” women. The first created at the same time as Adam, and the second, the Chava that we know, from his rib.

But the first first woman is *not* named as Lilith here.

That comes in a medieval (ie much later!!) text called The Alphabet of Ben Sirach, where the story of Adam and Lilith and Chava is told in much more detail.

Now Ben Sirach is from sfarim chitzoniyim, a category of apocryphal texts historically linked to Judaism, but are not part of our canon of belief. Like, the gospels of Xtianity fit this category - there may some historical truth to them, they involve Jewish people etc., but they are NOT Jewish religious texts.

So take Ben Sirach’s tale with a grain of salt - it may tell us how old this legend is, and that people were already passing this version around, but just because it exists doesn’t mean it’s true.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:29 pm; edited 2 times in total

ExtraCredit

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:21 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Guess he had three wives.

bigsis144

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:27 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Guess he had three wives.

solo

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:39 pm

My non Jewish nanny had a Romanian expression that meant angels were playing with the baby when it smiled in its sleep. My grandparents from the same region said the same thing in Yiddish

ExtraCredit

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:42 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

I thought you mentioned another one besides for Lilith??

bigsis144

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:47 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

I thought you mentioned another one besides for Lilith??

I reread my post and only ever found two (Lilith and Chava) mentioned?

Oy, now I’m all nervous that I’m an unclear writer and I will not be able to rest until I disambiguate...

realsilver

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 7:54 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

I thought you mentioned another one besides for Lilith??

She meant that It doesn’t mention the name of the first wife yet, We find out the name later.

But the first wife is definitely Lilith. So that’s 2 wives

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