Naming after tanach characters that didn't appear "nice"

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Metukah

Sat, Jun 06 2020, 6:10 pm

The simanim yaakov gave Rochel were hilchos nidda etc, so when Rochel gave them over to leah she never told her it was yaakov and hers sign. When yaakov asked her the questions, she answered and didn't think it was a big deal. She never knew that Rochel saved her from untold shame on her wedding night and gave up her husband for her sister.
This should change your perspective on leah. When she was upset at Rochel for taking her husband, she was not aware of the background. She thought she was rightfully yaakov first wife.

trixx

Sat, Jun 06 2020, 7:00 pm

gilamom wrote:

Funnily enough, I have a Chava and never thought twice, but it's nice to hear all these good things about her and I'll make sure to tell DD. The name Batya actually bothered me a bit at first because at the end of the day, she was Pharoah's daughter and a non jew but then I reminded myself that the Torah was given by parashat Yitro and he wasn't born Jewish either.

Batya converted, thats why she was at the nile (to do mikvah) and saw baby moshe. Hashem gave her that name. How much better can you do

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 3:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Well, I guess my title explains it.

DH and I thinking of baby names. I really like the name Leah, but then it got me thinking about Leah from tanach.... she didn't say such nice things to Rachel...
Also the name 'Chava'- she was the first person to sin. How come people chose that name?
Or 'Reuven'- didn't he get in trouble for interfering in his parent's marriage?

I'm sure there are other tanach names with "flaws" but these characters came to mind.

Im really sorry if I offend anyone. Im just curious

im not sure if you learned these stories in depth or not, but you must realize that those three people you chose were some of the greatest people to ever live.
Chava was the eim kol chai!
Leah was one of the imahos!
Reuven was was one of the shvatim!
They were not simple people, and learning about each of their "aveiros" in context will probably help you tremendously.
Reuven may have done an aveira for his status, but did you know that he is the person that we hold as a paradigm for teshuva? the gmara says about him, "kol haomar sheReuven chata, eino ela to'a"
Leah was a tzadeikes beyond what we could imagine. Everything she said to Rachel was justified when learning it with proper mefarshim.
Moshe Rabeinu hit the rock! Shaul hamelech chased dovid for years trying to kill him. I could bring you example after example. But these are the greatest tzadikim/tzidkanios to ever live. We learn about their chata'im in order to glean lessons from them, but everything needs a proper context

mandksima

Fri, Dec 04 2020, 4:48 am

These are interesting:
About the Imahot

In that article she links to others, one of them here: About Leah

amother

Yellow

Fri, Dec 04 2020, 6:40 am

FYI, in regard to Leah.
In Last weeks Parsha, parshat Vayetze, Leah names her 4th son Yehuda. With this, she is credited as being the first person to thank Hashem, for the everyday and to really acknowledge Hashem as the provider of everything in our lives.

And Rabbi Yohanan said in the name of Rabbi Shimon ben Yohai: From the day the Holy One, Blessed be He, created the world, no one thanked the Holy One, Blessed be He, until Leah came and thanked Him, as it is stated: ‘This time I will give thanks to God’” (Brachot 7b). (When she named Yehuda)

amother

Ecru

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 12:21 pm

OP, I'm also a BT and I (and DH) agree with every word you wrote. My kids have fairly unusual names. I actually wanted to use Dovid for our son but DH wouldn't hear of it, in part because he associates Dovid with the Batsheva incident and also with, I don't remember the details, but Dovid had too much blood on his hands to build the Beis Hamikdash? Or something like that? There's a reason it was Shlomo and not Dovid.

Instead, we named our son Yoshiyahu, after a king who is written about in Tanach as being as great as Dovid himself, and a BT as well.

And I was wondering about Leah just the other day. My chevrusa and I were learning Rav Falk, and he says all "the Imahos" are the absolute paragon of tznius, and we should strive to be like "the Imahos". And I asked: okay, I know Sara was "in the tent" as a sign of her tznius, and Rivka fell off the camel to be tzanua in front of Yitzchak, and Rochel walked among the sheep and also giving her sister the signs was an act of tznius. So what did Leah do? The only thing I remember about Leah with regard to tznius is "Leah went out" and then "Dina went out" and Chazal say, well, she's Leah's daughter. Rav Falk doesn't even have anything about her in his index of great women.

Now, I'm not saying Leah wasn't a huge tzaddekes. I would use the name (theoretically, except there are other girls' names we would use first if it is relevant). I love that she cried and davened and strove to change her lot and not have to marry a rasha. I also relate to Leah's declaration "Hapa'am odeh es Hashem" and if I ever have another child, I would (if it were up to me alone; I'd have to convince DH) name him/her Yehuda/Yehudis, because it would be absolutely unexpected and feel like "more than my share."

By the way, someone mentioned Yishai. I know he's said to have never sinned, but all we know about him IIRC is that he was presenting son after son to Shmuel as candidate for kingship and Shmuel had to convince him to bring Dovid as well. I'm not sure why this isn't viewed negatively.

(anon because I don't know many people who have a Yoshiyahu!)

amother

Purple

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 12:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Nice answer. But what is Leah known for? I don't know why she is considered one of the imahos. And also what did Chava do that was so good?

Yep Im a BT btw so my biblical history is kind of rusty...

Time to learn Chassidus.

farmom

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 1:14 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

The Gemara says that Dovid hamelech never sinned. "Whoever says David sinned is only in error"

Regarding Leah, the Lubavitcher Rebbe explains beautifully that her 'going out' was a positive thing, she had a special talent to influence the world.
https://www.chabad.org/parshah.....n.htm

amother

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 1:41 pm

thanks for all the ideas!
havent opened this thread in awhile so was nice to refresh my memory

I am leaning towards the name chana... I feel like she was a paradigm of teffilah...she davened so much for a son and bh received her yeshua after a long time. I felt that way with getting engaged!

anyone have nice ideas behind the character chana?

farmom

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 1:44 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Time to learn Chassidus.

I would agree with this. Chassidus explains the stories in tanach in a totally new light, and it's so empowering. I'm teaching a fascinating class on Yehudah and Tamar tomorrow.

amother

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 1:56 pm

farmom wrote:

I would agree with this. Chassidus explains the stories in tanach in a totally new light, and it's so empowering. I'm teaching a fascinating class on Yehudah and Tamar tomorrow.

Any chance you'll post info?? Would love to join!

amother

Ecru

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 3:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I love the name Chana. I've used it, I agree with you about the paradigm of tefilla. My only hesitation was only ever that I feel like a lot of people gloss over the infertility, but since you relate to it in the context of waiting to get engaged, I don't think you're glossing over it. Go for it, IMO.

Geulanow

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:10 am

Avraham Avinu chose to bury Sara Imeinu in the machpela where Adam and Chava are buried. After being chastised by Hashem , we don't hear Chava complaining.Even though not necessarily conscqChava showed the world what not listening to Hashem can do. She made it possible by what she did for people to have growth.With her one little act, she affected the whole world (sounds like coronavirus).- we can do good acts that affect the world.

farmom

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Any chance you'll post info?? Would love to join!l

I wish! But it's in Russian.
If you speak Russian by chance, I'd love to have you join.

Alternatively, it's a Torah Studies class, if you have a chabad house near you they may be teaching it this week

PinkFridge

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 7:00 am

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

There are childless gedolim, rebbes, etc. who along with their wives have many namesakes among their talmidim and chassidim.

PinkFridge

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 7:02 am

Geulanow wrote:

And Odom modeled incredible grace and perspective. He didn't name his wife Misa for introducing death into the world but Chava, because despite this big mistake, he realized her true essence as life-giving.

Tries2BGoodMom

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 7:08 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I thought of Penina when I read the thread title. I made a thread once called Penina or Margalit where I asked why it's okay to name after Penina when she's known for being mean to Hannah, and I got good answers there.

. I have a daughter named Penina and would love to see this thread! Can you post the link?

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 7:32 pm

Yes, I also have the question about the name Penina

amother

Azure

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:21 pm

I have a daughter Chana and she has so much Chen. I always wonder if it has to do with her name.

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