Wwyd: new BT using umbrella on Shabbat

amother

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:11 am

I you saw a new BT going to your shul on a rainy Shabbat using an umbrella:

1. Tell her so she won't violate Shabbat going home

2. Not say anything to not embarrass her

3. Tell her only after Shabbat because she might be tempted to use the umbrella on the way home, and it is worse if she knows it is forbidden

4 oOther?

amother

Cerise

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:15 am

hm good question

a lot depends upon your relationship with her

how can you diplomatically let her know?

I would want to know were it me. But would not want to be embarrassed. So sensitive.

Who is she close to? who is her mentor? Where are the rav and rebbetzin in all this?

You can offer a sounding board if she has any questions along the way. You can ask her if she would want you to let her know things? Again, lots depends upon the relationship.

If you do let her know precede it with tons of open warmth and admiration for the path she has chosen.

amother

Wine

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:20 am

One year our neighborhood eiruv broke and not everyone had realized. Our Rav informed is not to say a word to anyone walking in the street carrying. As we didn't want to put them in a predicament.

A week later it was fixed and I was pushing my baby in the stroller. A lady stopped to tell me it wasn't fixed yet and now what would I do now in the middle of the street with a baby and a stroller?

I would wait until after Shabbat to let the BT know. (I'm a BT and would have been tempted to use it anyway)

amother

Mauve

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:38 am

I would probably say nothing.

If I happened to be a very close friend, and I saw she had a raincoat with a hood, and I know that she is a chill person, then I might say something like - the Shabbos laws aren’t so intuitive, and I don’t know everything, but there is something about building and an umbrella, so we don’t use it on Shabbos.

But probably I wouldn’t say anything. The BTs in my shul always come with a purse, and I keep quiet. Once many years ago I said something and the woman was very offended. And for my bar mitzvah, I asked my husband’s non religious aunt not to bring a purse, and she brought one anyway. It was fine.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:42 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

A week later it was fixed and I was pushing my baby in the stroller. A lady stopped to tell me it wasn't fixed yet and now what would I do now in the middle of the street with a baby and a stroller?

I had the same scenario, but a neighbor told a different neighbor and she was stuck outside with her baby until she could find someone to ask what to do. The first neighbor had no idea that she’d done the wrong thing. People really need to know this.

Makehumusnotwar

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:43 am

Say nothing.

Maybe ask the Rav to give a general reminder to the whole congregation that umbrellas are ossur on shabbos. That way she won't know it's directed at her.

Rubber Ducky

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:47 am

I was that person with the umbrella once!

Yeah, it was a little embarrassing to be told that you can't use an umbrella on Shabbos or Yom Tov, but I'd rather be informed than stay blissfully ignorant. Just tell her.

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:50 am

Depending on your personality/relationship with her, either tell her, or tell the Rav/Rebbitzen so that they can inform her. She does need to know long-term, but I would not "school" her.

amother

Olive

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:57 am

I was that person once. And a “nice” lady decided to take it upon herself to put me on blast in front of the whole congregation. I was mortified Crying

If you do tell her, please do so in private!

goodmorning

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:48 am

OP, it's not clear from your post whether there is a good eiruv in your community (and the problem is just the umbrella) or if there isn't a good eiruv (and problem is also carrying).

There would be to me a much greater urgency in telling someone not to carry in a city without an eiruv than in telling someone not to use an umbrella (which is permissible according to many poskim, despite the fact that we don't follow the lenient opinion in this).

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:51 am

goodmorning wrote:

I've never met a frum jew using an umbrella shabbos. So even if there's an eruv, the nice thing is to make her aware of it discreetly and with sensitivity.

SixOfWands

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:59 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

I've never met a frum jew using an umbrella shabbos. So even if there's an eruv, the nice thing is it make her aware of it discreetly and with sensitivity.

Her point was that while its a minority opinion, there are some rabbis who hold that umbrella use is permitted. Since there is some basis to say that what she was doing was not mechalel Shabbat, telling her was less urgent.

Chances are that she already noticed that no one else had an umbrella, and looked into it.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 10:02 am

I've made a few blunders in my early frum years.

I'll never forget one time, when a friend said to me "We don't do that on Yom Tov.", as if that was their "personal thing". I was talking about how I had cooked something for DD on Yom Kippur, and I had thought it was OK because she was a toddler. (I know now that I should have given her a cold sandwich or some cereal.)

They did not say "You shouldn't be doing that!" and embarrass me. They knew that I looked up to them, so I took the hint. I knew they were talking about halacha, that had just not occurred to me until that moment. It's just the tone of voice and look that made everything so easy to take.

I'll always remember their kindness and sensitivity. The people who have made the greatest impact on me, were the ones who led by example.

If I were carrying an umbrella, and I said to you "Where's your umbrella? You're getting soaked!", hopefully my friend would reply "I don't carry an umbrella on Shabbos." If I asked "why", I would hope that they would explain gently.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Dec 10 2020, 10:04 am

BTDT it can be such a steep learning curve that she may not be noticing that others are not doing it.

Again, depending upon your relationship, you can let her know indirectly at an opportune time like how you prefer coats with hoods since cannot use an umbrella in inclement weather. Sandwich it in between a warm friendly convo.