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What is starting salary range for a lawyer in manhattan?
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 4:47 am
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
To the lawyer making 400k above - just a tip - please make sure you have a fully funded 401(k) and as many investments as you can handle - first of all it will help with your taxes and also because there is lifestyle creep - lawyers tend to spend what they make and then end up with a bad net worth. I say this as a lawyer who makes around 200k but I see that my husband has done much better than me through various investments and businesses because he isn’t in a spend/earn model. You can thank me later Smile


We save aggressively so we can retire in the next couple of years. Our spend rate is honestly fairly modest compared to our earnings. However, we don't have 401ks, for an assortment of reasons. I prefer to use post-tax dollars for investments and have the ability to tap it whenever I need or want. BH, we have no debt, own 2 homes (mortgage free) and have a nice amount saved up in the bank. Our investments are fairly diverse but for us, 401ks aren't part of our plan (and yes, we work closely with a financial advisor and accountant...) Most of our investments are designed as income replacement for retirement purposes, just at long term cap gains rates. But thanks for the advice.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 5:56 am
I actually like the lockup feature of the 401(k) - that you cant touch it no matter how badly you want to. Also for me it’s been a “set it and forget it” mechanism - I started in my 20s and the money that I put in the first year has since more than quadrupled. (Look up the rule of 72). Plus there is a tax savings against ordinary income at the higher rate right now, not later.

Also, in terms of retirement and income replacement, I’m not quite there yet and I don’t exactly see how you can get there too. Even though your mortgages are paid, you still have taxes on both properties and tuitions, summer camps, food. Maybe you can have a passive stream through dividend stocks or rental real estate but I don’t know so many people that do. I do know that lots of people have bought annuities or whole life insurance with annuities and for some reason felt like they were scammed. It didn’t work out for them in the end. So take a careful look at that as well.

One more thing before I start my day - I happen to love the S&P 500 index fund. It doesn’t have fees like a personal stock picker would, and it has given me an average of 10 percent return or so for the past 20 years that I’ve been in it, without worries about volatility.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:24 am
this is a bit off topic but how does one who did not graduate from a top law school and is working for a smaller company break into these jobs a few years in?
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amother
Jade


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:35 am
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
this is a bit off topic but how does one who did not graduate from a top law school and is working for a smaller company break into these jobs a few years in?

It is possible for associates to lateral up from smaller lower-grade law firms to biglaw firms when an opening for an experienced associate pops up. But usually laterals don't make huge leaps. Meaning, someone might move from a regional law firm to a national law firm, or from a small local firm to a regional law firm. If someone wants to go from a 30-person firm that does commercial litigation in one random city, to a full service biglaw firm, they will probably have to make at least two moves unless they have a personal connection.

Firm size is not directly equivalent to pay and prestige. There are small boutique firms run by ex-biglaw-partners that pay very well and compete with biglaw firms for prestigious work. A firm like that with 3 attorneys is not remotely comparable to a 3-attorney firm that does local work and competes with other local firms.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 10:49 pm
Can’t believe I thought to pursue a career in medicine after hearing these salaries.
If smart enough for medical school, then should’ve done law instead.
20 yrs ago it was easy to get in to top law school- only needed high LSAT score.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 11:09 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
this is a bit off topic but how does one who did not graduate from a top law school and is working for a smaller company break into these jobs a few years in?


It's very, very tough. Maybe, if you are working for a partner who jumps to a bigger firm, you could get taken along. If you do something really extraordinary, you might get an offer from one of the big firms. But this almost never happens. The big firms have more than enough associates of their own. Almost everyone who makes it to the stop started as a first year in one of the big firms.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Wed, Dec 30 2020, 11:10 pm
Quote:
Maybe you were just smart enough to stay away!


I agree with this. There's a study out there about the mental health and addiction rates among lawyers (all lawyers, yes, not just big firm ones) and it's pretty sad.
If you get lucky, could be great. If you don't, it's soul crushing.

As an aside, I work in tech where salaries are comparable. The culture is dreamy compared to (my husband's) legal experience.

Anon because I've shared this study often.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 4:43 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Can’t believe I thought to pursue a career in medicine after hearing these salaries.
If smart enough for medical school, then should’ve done law instead.
20 yrs ago it was easy to get in to top law school- only needed high LSAT score.


If you have a medicine brain (like me), law school ain’t for you LOL
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amother
Copper


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 7:14 am
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Quote:
Maybe you were just smart enough to stay away!


I agree with this. There's a study out there about the mental health and addiction rates among lawyers (all lawyers, yes, not just big firm ones) and it's pretty sad.
If you get lucky, could be great. If you don't, it's soul crushing.

As an aside, I work in tech where salaries are comparable. The culture is dreamy compared to (my husband's) legal experience.

Anon because I've shared this study often.
Can you elaborate on the tech jobs that have comparable salaries?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 6:01 pm
Can you attend a good law school part time?
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amother
Jade


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 6:08 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can you attend a good law school part time?

The top part-time program is Georgetown.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 8:08 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
The top part-time program is Georgetown.


Depends on the area of law. I went into trusts and estates and NYLS has the best part time option with access to that program. It may be a lesser tier school but if your the top of your class and highly specialized when you graduate, you can land a job in a mid-sized firm and build up from there. Build a strong referral network and book of business or differentiate yourself in some other fashion, and you can leverage up to big law (if that's your goal). Or you can carve out a sweetheart deal in a mid-sized firm.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 9:16 pm
Imax5 wrote:
Maybe you were just smart enough to stay away!


This. I’m a sahm and my husband is in Big law. 7 years later and I can tell you it’s not compatible with a frum life
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 11:48 pm
Quote:

Can you elaborate on the tech jobs that have comparable salaries?


Product managers, product designers, sales engineers, certainly developers/engineers (especially those with specialized skills), researchers, product marketing managers, localization managers, business strategy, data engineer, data analyst, privacy lawyers, payroll accountants, cloud specialists, IT, HR recruitment, HR culture people, etc.

Not everyone gets quite to the 400k mark - but starting at 150 and working your way up from there is pretty normal in the top tech companies, especially in product roles. Managers (and above) can easily get that high (or higher), after years of experience. Again, I'm talking in the tech equivalent of big law- the biggest companies with the best salaries. A good portion of that is in stocks typically.

Unlike law though, it's totally possible to work your way up from smaller startups. Start building a portfolio of work, and apply to bigger and bigger places as you gain experience. Startups sometimes pay well, sometimes not, but they are great experience that's respected in the bigger places. If you built an app, you built an app. Doesn't matter which school you went to either - I work with a bunch of people who don't have computer science degrees, but did a boot camp or studied something else entirely and learned through work experience. That's obviously harder, but a local state school is plenty good enough - it doesn't need to be Stanford.

I also see overall more respect for women/parents/diversity in the space and better work/life balance. No billable hours. No clients. Far less midnight oil being burnt. T-shirts and sandals.
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