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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
Behavior Problems - What Do We Do?
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Thu, Jan 14 2021, 11:46 pm
The fact that he is able to do well when he likes the subjects in the afternoon is telling. While I am not anti meds, it doesn't seem like the answer here, because that shows he can control his behavior when he wants to, or doesn't have the stressor that sets him off.
So, to me, the key is more about finding the reason why he struggles/dislikes certain aspects of the day and figuring the best way to deal with it.
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Thu, Jan 14 2021, 11:48 pm
I’m not sure why the school is recommending a neurologist and not a neuropsychologist. Probably because more neurologists take insurance. You need a good neuropsychological evaluation. They are expensive and rarely covered by insurance. NYU Child Study Center and Child Mind Institute are known to be excellent. Maybe someone can revoked someone good in Brooklyn, perhaps at a major hospital in the area? They will test for learning, attention, social emotional. Neuropsychs tend to make better and more in-depth recommendations for the school setting than a behavioral pediatrician. Look into Healthy Brain Network. They are doing a free study that is very similar to a neuropsych. It’s a very long waiting list, though, and the school may not be able to manage in the interim. Don’t discount medication. It could make a tremendous difference. Also as mentioned above, The Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Greene. He has an extensive website and podcasts as well. Not just for kids that are “explosive.”
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jan 15 2021, 2:43 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Why don’t you first describe some of the concerning behaviors you’re seeing?

Basically, the issue is that he either finds random things to do instead of whatever he is supposed to be doing, or else he'll do something lots of kids do but take it to a whole new extreme. When asked by an adult to stop, he usually will, but will soon start some other activity, or he might start doing the previous activity again later on. He isn't aggressive and doesn't typically have a defiant attitude, but at the same time he requires a lot of reminding not to do things he already knows he shouldn't. The teacher says he's not chutzpadik, he just does really odd things. He tends to run into trouble when expected to maintain proper decorum on his own. With individualized attention, he behaves better, but not always. His behavior is drastically worse when other kids cheer him on or laugh at his antics - this is a huge motivator for him and even if the adult in charge gets upset or imposes consequences, he isn't bothered as long as he keeps getting those laughs. He does better with written work, but has trouble finishing his work when doing handwriting practice because then he gets slightly perfectionistic about his letters and tends to write more slowly. His writing is decent even when he isn't being so careful, but he likes his handwriting workbook to be a work of art.

Problematic things he has done over the past few weeks:
-lie down across 2 chairs during class time (I think this happened multiple times)
-walk around carrying a classmate during davening (he asked and the classmate consented!)
-pour milk on the tabletop at lunch
-rub the bottoms of his shoes all over the classroom at recess so the floor was completely covered in black streaks...the entire floor, not just one area
-stood up on a chair in middle of the classroom during recess time and briefly pulled his pants down (not underwear). another kid did it along with him, not sure who was the instigator, ds is embarrassed he did this and refuses to discuss it with anyone
-read a book during class
-talking during class
-eating during class
-writing on his desk
-remove the remaining screws from a desk that was already partially detached, so that the entire tabletop separated from the legs.

His most outrageous mischief usually occurs during davening time or recess time, but he is low-key disruptive during class time. Also, as far as social skills are concerned, he often has an accomplice when doing naughty things but it's not always the same kid, he rotates between 4 or 5 friends. I sense that the school assumes - and this may or may not be true, it's hard to say - that ds is having a bad influence on the other children and inciting them to mischief, but I suspect there may be times when he gets the blame for another child's troublemaking just because he was on the scene at the time. Just today, there was an assembly and the menahel was telling a story to the entire school. The kid sitting next to ds mumbled something silly in response to something the menahel said, and ds laughed, so the principal called him by name in front of the whole school and had him stand in a corner for the remainder of the assembly. When I asked ds if he tried to explain what had really happened, he answered "But we weren't allowed to talk then!" So I asked if he went to explain after the assembly was over, to which he responded that there would be no point, as he was already free to go by then, so he wouldn't have gained anything.

At home, most challenges are around certain basic daily routines. He will try to fight me on washing his hands and taking showers, despite the fact that it's been consistently enforced for years. I am able to talk him through it calmly and he knows he has to listen in the end, but it's exhausting to have to put in all this effort almost every day. I have become very good at staying calm and consistent and getting things done, but at the same time it's a bit baffling why he doesn't just get used to it and stop trying to avoid it so often when he never even wins. Once he gets in the shower or starts getting his hands wet he doesn't want to stop, so I don't think this can be a sensory thing where he hates having wet skin. Also dressing is a challenge morning and night - he very often will sit near his clothes/pajamas and just not start for long periods of time, which is super nerve wracking. I make sure to build ample time into our schedule so we don't have to be pressured when he takes his time like this. But sometimes, he seems super motivated and will make up his mind to do the right thing and then he gets the job done in two minutes. Other times he just doesn't seem to care. He hates walking to school (it's a pretty long way and I don't have use of the car during the day) so in the morning the threat of missing the bus is often enough to get him moving, but a) it doesn't always work b) why do I still need to remind him of this after all these years of the same routine and c) this doesn't help at bedtime. He has a watch to help him be aware of time passing, and sometimes using a timer helps with getting routines done on time, but sometimes he gets fed up with the timer directing his schedule.

Another thing is that he steadfastly refuses to do any type of reviewing or studying at home. He doesn't mind written homework but that's all he will do. He does well at school but I know he could do even better if he spent a little bit of time reviewing at home. Dh and I are happy to study with him and I even turn it into a game to make it fun, and we've tried reward systems, but none of it helps and we don't force the issue.

And this completes the second book in my series, featuring liberal use of the word "but" in almost every sentence. If anyone was brave enough to get through it all, I applaud you.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jan 15 2021, 3:20 am
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
The fact that he is able to do well when he likes the subjects in the afternoon is telling. While I am not anti meds, it doesn't seem like the answer here, because that shows he can control his behavior when he wants to, or doesn't have the stressor that sets him off.
So, to me, the key is more about finding the reason why he struggles/dislikes certain aspects of the day and figuring the best way to deal with it.


Strongly agree with this. I have discussed this very topic with ds multiple times, trying to figure out how we can help make things better for him. His take is, davening, chumash, mishnayos, and gemara are plain old boring, and he has never liked any of his Hebrew teachers, not even the experienced star teachers that every other kid goes googly-eyed over. Last school year, he had a melamed who is a true master mechanech with an amazing reputation, and I had the opportunity to observe several chumash and mishnayos classes. I was blown away by this teacher's enthusiasm, the dynamic way the material was presented, and the way all the kids were constantly involved and kept on their toes with jokes and fun anecdotes while mastering the material. But ds was having none of it, he didn't participate, didn't respond, did his own thing, and still insisted all year long that he didn't like his teacher or any Hebrew subjects. The teacher was a saint for putting up with ds and not complaining all year, but this year a greater maturity level is required and his behavior is becoming a bigger problem.
I don't think the learning is too difficult. His reading in both Hebrew and English are outstanding and above grade level, so it's not that. His command of Hebrew and ability to translate are also excellent for his age. He remembers things he learned even years ago. He just doesn't find Hebrew subjects interesting and no amount of positive reinforcement or trying to spice up the subject matter seems to change that. But he loves science, loves literature, loves - and is a whiz at - spelling, and doesn't mind math...and has gotten several Student of the Week awards from the secular studies teachers.
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