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Hashkafah on Botox, Face-lift, Ultratherapy...
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 1:34 pm
What do you all think of the above procedures?
I'd love to do it but something inside of me feels like it doesn't have such a yiddishe taam. Thoughts?
Do you think these are common in the regular frum / just plain frum / yeshivish communities?
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 1:58 pm
The question here is balancing the natural desire to look your best with the undesirable quality of vanity. It's impossible to tell someone else what to do because different times and places have different norms. And because different people have different individual sensitivities.

I once heard a beautiful explanation of והדרת פני זקן. It doesn't mean just to honor the elderly, but to see beauty הדר in an old person, to recognize that beauty doesn't equal youth.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 6:03 pm
That's an insightful way of putting it. And beautiful vort.
I'd love to hear what others here think.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 6:09 pm
To me, it’s no different than any kind of non-permanent bodily enhancement.
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 7:03 pm
I think making yourself looking younger is glorifying the youth. We should be proud to look old and wise, to own our life experiences and what we went through. I think it is a secular value to honor youth and the young. That said I'm pretty young, so talk to me when I'm old and wrinkled Smile
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:50 pm
I'm under thirty but somehow I already have jowls.
It's making me anxious.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 9:34 pm
You are young. And so it seems too obsessed with aging. No one looks old under 30. Step away from the mirror.

Plenty people do those. Not in their 20's and not in their 30's.

But if someone is using a magnifine glass and starts really young for this you can end up looking like a weird alien like over processed barbie. It is not a good look.

Try face yoga. And hashkafa is same as makeup, nose jobs, and all the rest of beauty.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 10:18 pm
A face lift is in a different category from the other two. It requires surgery and general anesthesia and is a halachik shailah, not just hashkafic. There are circumstances when it is allowed, but they tend to be when the person has a significant physical or mental health reason why they need it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2021, 10:34 pm
Right... so I don't think I would ever really do facelift. I'm looking into ultratherapy... feel so uncomfortable with the thought but otoh why is it so different than makeup?
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 1:39 am
Wondering how common this is?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:09 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Wondering how common this is?


There are so many cosmetic procedure spas advertised in frum magazines! Minor outpatient stuff like laser resurfacing and injectables are done all the time. Probably way more than you'd think, it's just that people don't go around talking about it.

I'd love to get Botox between my eyebrows, it would make me look a lot less stressed. I'm not trying to be beautiful for anyone else, it would just make me happy when I look in the mirror. Besides, with Corona, who's going out to impress anybody?

If you don't leave the house without a full face of makeup every day, or if DH really likes you to look fully made up, I don't see a couple of minor adjustments as that big a leap. If the procedures make you look less tired, what's the harm? If you aren't into makeup and prefer the natural look, then having fresh and glowing skin is also important.

We get all dressed up for our DH's sake, so why not do a little for yourself as well?

Let's face it. Corona and isolating is depressing. We could all do with a little boost. I've been ordering way too much eyeshadow online lately. Batting Eyelashes
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Wondering how common this is?


Idk about ultratherapy, but fillers are super common
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:44 am
I don’t see what the big deal is! For those youngsters saying “embrace your age” - yeah- how about you embrace your face and step out in the morning without a stitch of makeup? None of us have illusions that we’ll look like a 15 year old maiden but neither do we want to look like a shriveled old hag.
I’m 40 and don’t mind it if I look 40 but it bothers me to be wrinkling way ahead of my age group. And have since a young age. So I take care of myself.
No issues.
If it feels right to you do it
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:55 am
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
I don’t see what the big deal is! For those youngsters saying “embrace your age” - yeah- how about you embrace your face and step out in the morning without a stitch of makeup? None of us have illusions that we’ll look like a 15 year old maiden but neither do we want to look like a shriveled old hag.
I’m 40 and don’t mind it if I look 40 but it bothers me to be wrinkling way ahead of my age group. And have since a young age. So I take care of myself.
No issues.
If it feels right to you do it


I actually do walk out without a stitch of makeup Smile (besides for weddings and lipstick if I have a doc appt) I just want to point out that I when I see my grandmother's face with all her wrinkles it's who she is. I admire her. I respect here and love her. I wouldn't want her to have one wrinkle less. Every so often I look in the mirror and I see my face aging and I feel a twinge and then I remind myself that aging is good. It's what we want. We don't want to be 20 at 30 or 30 at 40. We actually have a name for that IMMATURE Smile Anyways, I'm not talking about someone who looks 40 when they are 30, or has some obvious and different facial defect. I'm talking about being ok looking your age, and being ok being yourself. You are beautiful! I think I am beautiful without any make up Smile
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:00 am
behappy2 wrote:
I actually do walk out without a stitch of makeup Smile (besides for weddings and lipstick if I have a doc appt) I just want to point out that I when I see my grandmother's face with all her wrinkles it's who she is. I admire her. I respect here and love her. I wouldn't want her to have one wrinkle less. Every so often I look in the mirror and I see my face aging and I feel a twinge and then I remind myself that aging is good. It's what we want. We don't want to be 20 at 30 or 30 at 40. We actually have a name for that IMMATURE Smile Anyways, I'm not talking about someone who looks 40 when they are 30, or has some obvious and different facial defect. I'm talking about being ok looking your age, and being ok being yourself. You are beautiful! I think I am beautiful without any make up Smile


You also mentioned that you’re young...
Everyone likes aging, but most people don’t like signs of aging. Getting a facial procedure doesn’t make you act immature.
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:08 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
You also mentioned that you’re young...
Everyone likes aging, but most people don’t like signs of aging. Getting a facial procedure doesn’t make you act immature.


I'm young, but I'm not 20. And I didn't say that getting a facial procedure is an immature thing to do. Reread my post Smile I'm not judging anyone for wanting to look younger than they are. I think this is fed to us. I think it's an upside down world. At least take a second to think about what I wrote.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:37 am
behappy2 wrote:
I actually do walk out without a stitch of makeup Smile (besides for weddings and lipstick if I have a doc appt) I just want to point out that I when I see my grandmother's face with all her wrinkles it's who she is. I admire her. I respect here and love her. I wouldn't want her to have one wrinkle less. Every so often I look in the mirror and I see my face aging and I feel a twinge and then I remind myself that aging is good. It's what we want. We don't want to be 20 at 30 or 30 at 40. We actually have a name for that IMMATURE Smile Anyways, I'm not talking about someone who looks 40 when they are 30, or has some obvious and different facial defect. I'm talking about being ok looking your age, and being ok being yourself. You are beautiful! I think I am beautiful without any make up Smile

I challenge you then to go to weddings sans make up.
I can’t take off my wrinkly face when I go to weddings.
And I’m proud of my age, cognizant of all my struggles that have brought quicker aging to me- love myself- but no- I don’t love my wrinkles.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:39 am
behappy2 wrote:
I actually do walk out without a stitch of makeup Smile (besides for weddings and lipstick if I have a doc appt) I just want to point out that I when I see my grandmother's face with all her wrinkles it's who she is. I admire her. I respect here and love her. I wouldn't want her to have one wrinkle less. Every so often I look in the mirror and I see my face aging and I feel a twinge and then I remind myself that aging is good. It's what we want. We don't want to be 20 at 30 or 30 at 40. We actually have a name for that IMMATURE Smile Anyways, I'm not talking about someone who looks 40 when they are 30, or has some obvious and different facial defect. I'm talking about being ok looking your age, and being ok being yourself. You are beautiful! I think I am beautiful without any make up Smile

I take umbrage with the title “immature”
Perhaps there’s more going on inside of us but we’re not “immature”
Perhaps we’re scared of the future or sad for missed opportunities in our youth or lack self confidence etc
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:41 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
You also mentioned that you’re young...
Everyone likes aging, but most people don’t like signs of aging. Getting a facial procedure doesn’t make you act immature.

I don’t like aging.
It’s hard seeing my body slow down a bit... hard having my feet hurt... hard having a stiffer body in the mornings when I still have little ones wanting to play.
Yeah I’m only in my 40-s but I’m not 20 any more
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2021, 9:47 am
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

Perhaps we’re scared of the future or sad for missed opportunities in our youth or lack self confidence etc


There's no procedure in the world that will fix these problems. You'll just end up with less money and a shiny face that looks like you're recovering from Bell's palsy.
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