Why Tehillim? | Imamother

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:34 pm

honey36 wrote:

Wow, so interesting. I mean I learned that if your davening is just "lip service" it's not worth anything and Hashem doesn't like it. But I've also learned that even if you just have kavanah for a small part of davening, it's worth something.

Im also pretty sure the chofetz chaim says that even if a person knows they won't have kavanah they shouldn't stop davening because it's like a broken watch. If someone just lets the watch sit for years and years without touching it, it will rust and become irreparable. But if every day he winds it and plays around with it, even though it won't be fixed, it will be able to be repaired one day.

I hear both sides of the argument. Its definitely a very interesting contraversy.

This is not a controversy with two sides. There's only one side, and I won't be the one to say what that is. Every ima can call her own Rabbi to ask whether or not it's okay or a good idea to say Tehillim for a sick person. I suspect that every ima from every group and subgroup in every location will get the same answer. No controversy here. This is not a question like how many hours we wait between milk and meat or what type of foods we eat on Pesach or how we pronounce the words of Tehillim when we say them.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:52 pm

This is just my personal experience.
I say Tehillim for connection and sometimes to feel comforted. I feel a connection to the words even though I don't understand most of it and to the idea that it is as powerful prayer book that I can say always turn to. I also feel comforted by it when times are challenging. I just feel that Hashem is listening and I'm not alone.
Perhaps it's the idea that in his time of great distress, Dovid Hamelech was able to compose 150 chapters of praise, hope, love, connection, strength and trust in Hashem. It gives me strength to continue on in my Emunah, Bitachon when things are tough, to strengthen in hope, believe and trust through the words of Tehillim.

Frumme

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:01 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

I'm sure it says that tehilim is very powerful. I don't question that. My question is whether it helps in the way that we humans are trying to apply it. For example would you say that singles above 40 have said less tehilim than those married? Did the people who died from Covid have less tehilim said for them?

Is there any practical example you could share that would demonstrate that the people saying tehilim are getting better results than the people that aren't saying tehilim? I wish I could actually apply what you said instead of just repeating it to myself while realizing it doesn't make sense to me.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that there's some "tehillim tally" that people have. When people do the 40 days of tehillim for refuah etc kind of thing I kind of feel it's turning something we know is holy into segulah territory-- even though tehillim itself is powerful regardless of that. That being said, in either case, tehillim is being said.

I do believe that tehillim is words of Torah and only good can come of that. Whether you say one kapitel or 100, what matters more is that you're doing it in the first place. I think that saying tehillim affects someone on a mental level, whether it's to be more positive, or feel accomplished, etc. Perhaps tehillim is less "these words are magical" and more "saying tehillim puts you into a better mindset" and is a way to refine one's self in order to be receptive to brachas from above.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:05 pm

Frumme wrote:

You are right, it might affect the person saying it and make them feel better or refine them, but I'm not sure we're allowed to say that's all it is. I'm not sure we're allowed to negate the fact that the actual act of saying the words of Tehillim has a positive effect, totally separate from making the person who said them feel a certain way.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:26 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Do you understand the translation of the your quotation?
I suspect not.
We don't believe in any form of incantations, magic or the like, they are assur.
Saying Tehillim to ask for health or for help with any issue does not fall into the same category.
For anyone who wants specific advice in this area- instead of stumbling through the sources on your own misunderstanding them and drawing incorrect conclusions, contact your lor, ask a shayla, reach out to the same person you call when your kids made mac n cheese in your meat dishes.

I see I've touched a nerve here. Perhaps you didn't understand. The Rambam and the Mechaber were talking about Jews who very much did believe that saying certain pesukim could bring about magical results. This form of superstition is probably not as prevalent now as it once was, but it hasn't disappeared entirely, either.

Neither one of them said that you shouldn't say tehillim as a way of davening or expressing closeness to Hashem. They said not to treat them as magic.

You might wish to discuss this subtle distinction with a rabbi.

Simple1

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:27 pm

I've seen positive, almost miraculous changes after committing to Tehillim for a long time (a year or so). Also, it's not always about getting everything you want, but if you look for it, you will start to see it. In a separate incident, we were saying Tehillim for a sick person who it was not meant for her to recover. But, He answers in other ways. For example, during COVID regulations, Hashem sent her a "malach" in the form of a very kind nurse who hit it off with her, shmoozed with her, looked after her, and really kept up her spirits at a time that no visitors were allowed.

I have a somewhat hard time with davening, but Tehillim comes much easier to me. There is just so much emotion in it that you can relate to. Buy a translated Tehillim, and take it slowly and learn it. It's worth it.

salt

Mon, Feb 15 2021, 12:57 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

What bothers me about this story is that it demonstrates that in fact tehilim changes life in a real and identifiable way. Yet, we don't ever see it. Would you argue that the people who say more tehilim suffer less? That they don't struggle as much with health, parnassa, or infertility? I don't think you'd say that. Yet you bring 1 story as if that story demonstrates tehilim works on a practical level while ignoring the millions of people who say tehilim and are suffering. Does this make sense?

Well you'd need to do a double blind experiment, or whatever those medical scientific experiments are called, to discover the answer to that.
I think you'd have the same question with every tefilla, not just tehillim.

My DH works with a secular doctor, she's originally from Russia, and doesn't read Hebrew fluently. She works in the NICU in a hospital in Israel. She says to him that she doesn't daven because she can't, she's already old and she's never learnt how. But she sees with her own eyes that tefilla helps. She sees babies in critical condition, and when the families daven, the situation improves.
It's a bit paradoxical, because she says this with complete sincerity, but doesn't daven herself, or even keep shabbat, but she is saying it purely based on empirical observation. Facts that you can't argue with, after many years of experience in hospital in Israel.