Seminary in Israel next year-must vaccinate?

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 1:45 pm

DrMom wrote:

I'm not sure why you keep saying it is "not approved" if it is "approved for emergency use."

Obviously, that is a form of approval.

By telling people that it is "not approved" you are implying that it is not approved at all, and you are spreading fake news.

Approved for emergency use is like a last ditch effort. Like if someone has a lethal disease so what's the harm in trying something experimental?

This vaccine is still experimental. We the people are the participants in this ongoing trial.

So it should - maybe - be used for emergency cases, I.e. those so at risk that they are better off taking their chances with the vaccine than with Covid. For most of us who are healthy and not very old there is no emergency. It's manufactured fear.

Yes, Covid is real. No, I don't want it. Yes, I know people who died from it. I still want the right to take my chances with my immune system and meds prescribed by my doctor if I do catch the virus rather than take this experimental vaccine. And it should be my right to do so.

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Back to the main question, can anyone who knows any answers from any of the seminaries post their information here and the name of the seminary so we can all know and help each other? Thanks

I don't know about seminaries, but I do know that (most?) yeshivas haven't made any decisions yet. Things are simply much too uncertain to put policies in place six months in advance.

Elfrida

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 1:52 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Yes, Covid is real. No, I don't want it. Yes, I know people who died from it. I still want the right to take my chances with my immune system and meds prescribed by my doctor if I do catch the virus rather than take this experimental vaccine. And it should be my right to do so.

It is your right not to take the vaccine. It is also your right to accept the consequences of that decision, which in this case may include not being able to go to seminary in Israel.

No one is forcing anyone to take a vaccine but you can't have your cake and eat it.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 1:59 pm

Elfrida wrote:

It is illegal to have consequences for not participating in trials but you are 1000% correct that international travel over borders has never been a right.

#BestBubby

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 2:07 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I am so eager for my DDs to get vaccinated.

Sorry, if your DD is not vaccinated I don’t want her in the dorm with mine.

Isn't that proof you don't believe the vaccine works???

FranticFrummie

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 2:18 pm

I certainly hope it will be required for everyone coming into the country.

DD can't wait to get her vaccine so she can go to college next year and not have to worry about falling ill and missing her first year.

OP, how are you going to feel if you send your DD to Israel, and she gets Covid? She won't have you to take care of her. She'll be on her own. She'll be absolutely miserable, homesick, and missing you. What if CVS she ends up in the hospital, or even worse - on a respirator? Who will hold her hand and make sure she gets the best possible care?

She has a much higher risk of getting severely ill, than she does of having any sort of side effect from the vaccine. Israel is leading the world in vaccination, the there are only a small handful of reported cases of serious reactions. It usually ranges from a slightly sore arm and a low headache, to having flu symptoms for 3 to 4 days.

Worldwide, over 2 MILLION people have DIED from Covid. Well over half a million in the US alone.

How many have died or become seriously injured from the vaccine? It's not brainwashing, it's science. Do the math.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 3:26 pm

My dd got into sems. The one she chose wrote explicitly that they wld give a full refund should they need to cancel or postpone due to covid (not exact wording but gist of)
They also wrote every girl coming must be vaccinated. (Same as MMR etc)
I'm grateful for these standards. Have seen way too many friends and family terribly terribly ill... And yes young people too.
I'm in the UK for point of reference.

amother

Pink

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 3:52 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

And what if she has only mild symptoms but needs help to get out of bed and get dressed and has to stay in bed all day for months because covid killed her robust health?

amother

Pink

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 3:55 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Thats for people IN israel. Why should israel set up vaccine stands out of israel? I see this differently, but thats ok.

AFAIK Natbag is IN Israel.

The plane lands, everyone disembarks, all those on student visas take their carry-ons and walk towards customs, and before they get to customs there is a MDA stand for them to get their vaccines and wait 15 minutes. They put their little vaccine slips in their passports and show it to customs people, who let them out to collect their suitcases and leave the airport (to wherever - hotel, seminary with an electronic bracelet, whatever). No students are allowed to pass through customs without a vaccine slip from the Natbag MDA stand.

Why should we do this? Because it will allow us to host all these students, who are so important for our hurting economy, with very little risk to them, to our resources and healthcare system and very little flack from abroad.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 4:00 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Just a side point: students do indeed contribute to the economy, but to say that they are providing jobs for thousands is a wild exaggeration. The reason to allow students is to create long term connections with Israel.

I think when that poster said providing jobs for thousands, she might have meant all of the staff and teachers in all of the sems and yeshivot. I dont know if its thousands, but definitely hundreds of people who work in the sem and yeshivot have taken a dive in their salary. I know this is definitely true. And some have pashut not worked.

DrMom

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 4:01 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

While I concede that no long-term studies have been conducted yet (obviously), your representation of the vaccines as some random untested garbage we just shoot into people's arms because -- hey, why not? might as well try something! -- is really distorted.

Thousands of people participated in clinical trials before the vaccine was made available to the general public. And this sort of vaccine had been under development for years prior to covid as a treatment for SARS.

amother

Plum

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 4:23 pm

I run a seminary in Israel (for balei tshuvah) In all honesty it isn't really up to the seminary to decide if they will let you not vax or not. Now each student entering the country needs an entry permit and the government decides on what makes a person eligible to receive one. As of this moment no entry permits are being approved for students even visa holders. Hence the going home for pesach issue people are dealing with right now. Basically, even if your sems says they will not require vax they may have no choice in the end. We also dont expect exact rules until well into July if not later. For the record Quarantine in Israel is no joke. I know seminaries that had girls in quarantine for months because every time a new girl tested positive the quarantine time started over. When the vaccinces became available to students ( free of charge by the way) the kids were linning up. Noone wants to be in quarantine anymore!

#BestBubby

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 9:19 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

No, but this is proof you don't understand how vaccinations work

Vaccines are supposed to make you immune.

So why should a vaccinated person be scared of an unvaccinated person if they are immune???

Please do explain.

amother

Violet

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 9:22 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Vaccines are supposed to make you immune.

So why should a vaccinated person be scared of an unvaccinated person if they are immune???

Please do explain.

Because most vaccines aren't 100% effective, so we're relying on everyone getting it to prevent the few people it's not effective on from getting sick. (true story time- I for some reason can't maintain measles immunity. I got the shot again multiple times and without fail, a year later I'm no longer immune. During an outbreak I need to stay away from unvaccinated people because they could get me and my infants very sick)

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 9:23 pm

DrMom wrote:

DrMom. Thanksm u said it better than I could have. Im glad I didnt waste my time
.
Ill leave you to handle the anti-vax nonesense

FranticFrummie

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 9:32 pm

daisy wrote:

That's very black and white thinking.

False Dilemma/False Dichotomy

This fallacy has a few other names: “black-and-white fallacy,” “either-or fallacy,” “false dichotomy,” and “bifurcation fallacy.” This line of reasoning fails by limiting the options to two when there are in fact more options to choose from. Sometimes the choices are between one thing, the other thing, or both things together (they don’t exclude each other). Sometimes there is a whole range of options, three, four, five, or a hundred and forty-five. However it may happen, the false dichotomy fallacy errs by oversimplifying the range of options.

The false dilemma fallacy is often a manipulative tool designed to polarize the audience, heroicizing one side and demonizing the other. It’s common in political discourse as a way of strong-arming the public into supporting controversial legislation or policies.

#BestBubby

Tue, Mar 02 2021, 10:01 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

In other words, the vaccine did not work. Which is my point.