PSA - You do not get to invent statistics!

amother

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 12:35 pm

On one thread an anonymous poster (lilac) insisted that the death rates for 2020 were similar to those for 2019, implying that Covid is similar to the flu. Does anyone really still believe that? Do people need to believe this so badly that they invent numbers to back their false claims?

Another poster (mauve) responded with actual numbers and sources showing that there were over 300,000 excess deaths (a significant 12% increase) in 2020, to which lilac responded that 2019 had 300,00 more deaths than 2018. This is patently false (the difference is only about 15,000, both typical and negligible due to population growth) which mauve demonstrated with actual numbers and a link. Lilac didn't respond, nor did she delete her false claims, which got 'likes' from others who obviously feel the need to believe that Covid is not such a killer.

Maybe the poster did not actually invent these false claims, but was repeating them from others who did.

People, do you not see how dangerous this is? Just becomes someone writes, posts, or says something it does not mean that there is any veracity to it if it's not backed up by a reliable source. Please do not embarrass yourselves by repeating these lies and possibly causing others to, also.

small bean

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 12:56 pm

I didn't see the thread but excess deaths in the US can not only he attributed to covid. If you look at excess deaths by age, the numbers don't correlate completely to covid deaths by age. I'm not denying anything just saying that people can use numbers to get to whatever agenda they want, if you don't use all numbers.

I think many people dided with covid not from covid. And some people died only because of covid.

amother

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:19 pm

small bean wrote:

If you want to claim that the proven number of excess deaths are not only attributed to Covid you're certainly entitled to state your case. However, no one is entitled to INVENT numbers!

Yes, there are verifiable sources which state how many people have died each year, period. There is nothing to argue about. Lilac's stating completely false info about this is not 'using the numbers', it's lying about them.

Amarante

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Well there remain a significant number of "deniers" who seem to have a reason to deny the reality. They seem to align themselves with certain other conspiracy political theories - just saying Smile

It is absolutely indisputable that more than 500,000 Americans died of COVID to date - significantly higher than any deaths from flu in ANY year.

But from a broader perspective, it is extremely frightening and depressing that there remain people who do not seem to accept basic facts. One can form a different opinion but for any society to operate, people have to accept facts. And I know that these same people are going to claim that these facts aren't true - that they are biased facts etc. Nothing to do except hope that eventually people accept facts because the lies and distortions no longer can be believed.

amother

Navy

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:34 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

Why not? CDC does. Big Pharma does. Your government does.

PSA: All of the above have an agenda, and your well-being isn't it.

You basically just argued that its okay to cheat on a math test because the kid next to you did.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:39 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

You basically just argued that its okay to cheat on a math test because the kid next to you did.

Did I? LOL! That wasn't where I was trying to go with it.

I was trying to let OP, and anyone like OP, know that while making up statistics isn't ok, we shouldn't pretend the institutions people blindly trust don't do it with purpose too. And so to post a PSA with righteous indignation is kind of.... sad.

Amarante

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:42 pm

And how did I predict that reputable sources of information would be immediately discredited. Every government in the world is obviously wrong about Covid and vaccines. Why believe the CDC when you can get your “facts” from crackpot anonymous sources

amother

Maroon

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

The thing is, they only very rarely make up statistics. They much more commonly represent true statistics in a way that does not provide actual information.

amother

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:52 pm

Please show me how the CDC or anyone else is inventing the number of deaths tabulated and listed per year. Note that I did not state 'deaths from Covid', I stated number of deaths, period.

Are they hiding old death certificates from previous years? Are they listing people as dead (from whatever cause) who are still alive?
It's frightening to think that people could really believe this.

Lilac stated that there were 300,000 more deaths in 2019 than in 2018. Totally false according to credible records. It is a straightout lie. She also stated that the number of deaths in 2020 is similar to the number of deaths in 2019. Also a straightout lie. We do not need much imagination to think of what the agenda behind her falsehoods is.

Again, do you think the CDC somehow invented the number of deaths per year?

amother

Navy

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:53 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

I didn't see any righteous indignation. OP isn't representing the CDC.

iyar

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 2:00 pm

Amarante wrote:

Well there remain a significant number of "deniers" who seem to have a reason to deny the reality. They seem to align themselves with certain other conspiracy political theories - just saying Smile

Why is that indisputable?
You can make a poll and ask how many people died of covid and how many people know someone who died of covid and if you don't get to 500,000 you can say it's not true. Or there are lots of other creative ways to dispute this. If polls aren't your thing you can publish a study. Or invent a meme. Or you can just say so.
Inventing statistics is fun. If Kellyanne Conway can invent alternative facts I get to invent any statistics I want.
Prove me wrong. If you can.

Amarante

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 2:35 pm

iyar wrote:

If you don’t accept public records, I don’t know what to say. How do you do anything if you don’t trust any information.

Are you saying that numerous agencies, medical providers, staff etc. all conspired to report deaths from Covid in order to do what. What would be the purpose of this?

It makes no sense to have this kinds of delusional thinking and yet I bet you think you are just more astute amd discerning than we shlubs who base on opinions and actions on universally accepted data.

small bean

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 2:54 pm

I don't think 2019 or 2020 numbers are finsihed being adjusted yet. Afaik they just finished 2018.

No pne is denying deaths with covid. With covid is not from covid that's the debate. And where excess deaths come in. How mamy excess deaths were due to covid and other reasons? These numbers are not out yet, so don't answer. What we do know shows that there were excess deaths in other categories also and the question is why.

That being said I still don't know an3hone personally that died from covid. I know of people but no one I've spoken to or have associated with died. I still know people died from covid and with covid.

iyar

Wed, Mar 03 2021, 4:59 pm

Amarante wrote:

I think you might have missed my point Amarante, but no problem.
I probably should have found the appropriate emoji to indicate tone of voice.
I happen not to think I'm more astute or discerning than you or anyone else.
I do happen to think the word might be zhlub and not shlub but this could be an issue of regional dialect and not an actual error.