Do frum ppl not value having a "cute" home?

iyar

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:16 pm

OP is English your first language?
I have no idea what you mean by a “cute” home with cute in quotation marks.
Cute is not an adjective commonly used to describe a home, and when it is used to describe home decor it’s not necessarily a compliment.
Most Jewish families put at least some emphasis on the way their homes look but by necessity most of us decorate within our budgets and means. There are a lot of different lifestyles in our community and homes run the gamut from rundown/ barely habitable to over the top ostentatious.
Some people are more interested in gardening than others, some people enjoy art, others like silver or other traditional furnishings. Some people decorate with metzias from Target or Home Goods and others have their decorators supply them with higher end higher priced furnishings.
I haven’t been inside any houses I’d describe as cute but I’ve been inside lots of Jewish homes that looked like their owners cared about them.

amother

Orange

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:28 pm

I understand op very well. I grew up not frum in an upper middle class suburban area. The homes were fancy and spotless. People kept their lawns and landscaping beautiful. Each house had different paint and a different look to them. Very lovely and charming. Interior decorating was expected to express individual taste and interests. There was social pressure to stand out as an individual. The social pressure in the frum community (except for rich people) is to all decorate the same and not stand out.

I now live in a middle class neighborhood of mixed jews and non jews in an oot midwestern city. My house, and those of my frum neighbors, have poorly maintained lawns, lots of outdoor toys left out, snack wrappers tossed by kids, and weeds. Our homes look much less well maintained than the non jews, who usually don’t have as many kids, don’t pay tuition, can live on pretty low salaries because their cost of living is less, don’t have the weekly hard work of making Shabbos, and overall have more free time to spend maintaining their homes.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:32 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

the difference is that you are out of town. In lakewood/jackson/toms river, the frum homes are more beautiful and better maintained than even the wealthy non jews

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:35 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

same... where in the world does OP live?? where I live, non jewish hopes are all messy, with big clunky out-dated furniture and knicknacks. Frum homes are spotless, modern, spacious, and up-to-date. Definitely a value around here!

I’m curious now, which frum area has spotless homes? That’s hard to maintain with large families.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:37 pm

I am not sure what OP means exactly but what I observe in my Midwestern, suburban city is that houses owned by frum people (not specifically wealthy or poor, but just middle of the road) tend to be not as well kept outside. Exterior of the house is very simple, not updated at all. Landscaping is messy or non-existant. There is trash left around on the lawn and sidewalk in front. Lawnchairs, toys, bikes, chalk, etc are lying around outside as well. There are large patches of mud by the end of driveways.

I don't think inside these homes are unkempt or messy. I cannot confirm since I don't visit every single person's house and check out the inside. But I know most people update their home and probably do not leave trash on the floor of their living room.

I just think that people would rather put their money into the inside of their house where they actually "live" instead of making sure their grass is just as green and lush as their non-jewish neighbors. That doesn't explain the trash though....

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:47 pm

it seems to depend on which "class" you are looking at. in the upper middle class and above, the secular world will have a far bigger emphasis on the appearance and style of the home. Even frum wealthy homes will have other priorities...before their beautiful homes.
In anything lower than middle class, it could go in either direction- as those have shared. You can generalize as to who will keep a better looking home. Obviously the Hungarians in the same neighborhood will win for their museums. The easy-going large frum family may lose unless they are neighbors with multi family dwelling.......
Another large frum family maybe really neat and organized... but still not think about maintaining their lawn or being in style or perhaps they are.......

amother

Ruby

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 12:58 am

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

Interesting as this thread is a Rorschach Test in terms of responses since every one has their own definition and reaction to what is a "cute" house and why frum homes aren't "cute - ranging from agreement to defensiveness.

I suspect that some of it has to do with how people are raised - typically frum people aren't outdoorsy and into gardening nor are they raised to be artistic. I am generalizing of course but there are relatively few great Jewish artists as compared to their population where Jews over-exceed their actual population percentages in fields like science and medicine.

Based on real estate listings, a lot of Jewish homes seem to be bland with not a great deal of personal style. I wonder if that has something to do with how often I see people questioning whether something is acceptable or how it would be viewed. Perhaps this is a disincentive for people to want to decorate in a way that could be viewed as not quite right by community standards.

I think that the responses are a reflection of the posters location and/or culture.

In a nice suburban OOT community often the non-Jewish homes are less cluttered and definitely have nice lawns. Growing up OOT it was so normal to see our neighbors gardening and tending to their lawns pretty often. While the frum people also had lawns, they either had a company upkeep it periodically or mowed it themselves to keep it nice, nothing fancy. In general oot, where there is less of a focus on gashmius, people tend to care less about their lawns looking, to quote another poster, "magazine worthy".

Vs when frum people live among lower class or younger, apartment renters, the frum houses and yards probably look nicer. I now live in Brooklyn in a lower class area, pretty much only the frum houses look decent, the rest are pretty run down.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 1:07 am

When I was in high school, I had a friend with an elegant home. Everyone who came to visit had to take their shoes off at the entrance. No one was allowed to sit on the fancy living room furniture. We were only allowed to sit on the kitchen chairs or on the living room floor. If this is your priority, then enjoy!

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 1:14 am

HeartyAppetite wrote:

What neighborhoods are you referring to? Come visit the chassidish houses, most of our homes look like museums compared to the non Jews that live near us.
And we have lots of kids, and expenses.
And we’re not even talking about Hungarians. Hungarians wash their walls weekly, mop their floors every night, dust the chandeliers. Make sure the silver is polished very week.
Of course there are exceptions but you are definitely not talking about my community.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I grew up in such a chassidishe home that looked like a museum. And I'll just say that it is far from a positive thing. I'm making sure that is not happening in my home.

And to comment to your other post - warm/welcoming and museum-like are contradictions.

Rappel

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 1:16 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

Yup. Definitely not the way my children need to grow up. Hail the mess!

imaima

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 2:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm generalizing and generalizations aren't always true, but I've noticed that as a general rule the frum homes are way more messy and unkempt - both inside and out - as compared to non-jewish houses in the same neighborhood. this is true in pretty much every frum area I've visited.

if you accept the basic premise I'm generalizing, my question is why? why do frump ppl not value having a "cute" home.

my husband and I were discussing this, and we came up with various theories, mainly having to do with money and values, such as... frum families have more kids, and there's less time and money to spend on keeping the house looking cute... also having to pay for private schools for a bunch of kids as opposed to non-jews with 1-2 kids sending to public schools... or just generally, jews just value education or letting kids be kids and play as values as opposed to keeping your home in tip-top shape and making sure kids dont destroy things and getting upset if they do...

or maybe on a very basic level, frum jews viewing a home as a place to derive pleasure from family and community and torah, rather than as a place to derive aesthetic pleasure.

what do you think?

I think that you are simply wrong. Frum homes are often just aa cute as the rest.

twizzlers1

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 2:34 am

I'm sure if you would start walking into many random non-jews homes you would find some that are well kept and very nice and some that are not just like you would find in the Jewish community. Much of the time it does reflect wealth but I live in Israel and I have friends that do not have a lot and their homes are always clean and look beautiful.

zaq

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:44 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

snack wrappers tossed by kids.

For this there is no excuse. No time to weed and prune the rosebushes, fine. You have other priorities. But to allow your kids to throw snack wrappers on the ground, even if it's your ground and not a public street, is disgraceful from a civic perspective and terrible chinuch from a religious one.

amother

Maroon

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:33 am

I don't know where you live, but where I grew up and live now the frum homes are immaculate outside and inside. I wouldn't call any of them cute. They are gorgeous, immaculate, picture perfect etc... maybe you just live in a poor neighborhood. Walk through the rich frum areas in brooklyn or lakewood or anywhere else. That's what you'll see.
And the sweeping generalization is really silly.

amother

cornflower

Mon, Mar 08 2021, 9:00 am

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, because I just scanned through the responses. Now that my work is remote and we do a lot of zoom meetings, I get to see the inside of my non Jewish co-workers homes. I also live OOT so not the NY scene. My co-workers homes look much more minimilistic, clean, accessorized, and put together than mine. Even the one guy who is stuck working in his basement - has a really organized basement. My boss who has a more hungarian style still has a really put togehter home. I think partially it has to do with class and partially with personality. Most of the people I am working with are middle to upper class. Of course you will have hoarders in all classes, but for those who are not hoarders, the mid to upper class will have more time and money to spend on taking care of a house. Yes they also have less kids and different priorities, but on the most part, I think they value and see it as a reflection of them on how well manicured their lawn is. For the same reason the middel class will do things themselves rather than outsource to others. I also see that it is a topic that they are always discussing with eachother. What they are fixing up.