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In town vs Out of town the official debate
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:04 pm
I was raised OOT (though big city OOT) with kosher restaurants and several Orthodox schools. I moved to Lakewood when I got married and am very happy here, yet I still have a lot of family (my side and in-laws) in various OOT communities.
I laugh when people talk about no peer pressure OOT. Maybe it was just my city (though I'm doubtful) but we had lots of peer pressure. Piercing ears, contacts, high heels, makeup, curfews, getting licenses, big splash for bas mitzva vs small family party just to name a few.
My parents always say that they felt pressured to compromise and give in earlier than they would have wanted (makeup at 14 rather than 16, license at 16 rather than after I graduated) because it wouldn't be fair to make me be the only girl in my class at school Shabbos without makeup.

Thoughts, feelings.
I'm curious but please can we keep this a civil conversation.
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finprof




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:08 pm
All HS girls have peer pressure. Watch any movie ever! For the rest of the community, I think OOT communities like Chicago/Skokie, St. Louis ect have that more than smaller ones. When there is 1 Shul you have to get along- you have no choice!
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:09 pm
There is peer pressure everywhere in every town, community and group. The pressures are different based on thr groups. There is also different kinds of pressure, items, spiritual, frugal, money, health etc.

It's a personality how much it effects a person.

I think there are other pros and cons to OOT living other than pressure.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:14 pm
Of course there's more to oot vs in town than pressure.
I was just laughing at some of the threads that seemed to smugly say OOT there's no pressure. And I was thinking not my experience.
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Crookshanks




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:26 pm
Or how oot's are so polite and Lakewood/BP people are all rude. My coworker who lives out of town told me seriously, no sarcasm, that out of towners are better people than in towners. I was like, you actually believe that? And she did.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:35 pm
keym wrote:
Of course there's more to oot vs in town than pressure.
I was just laughing at some of the threads that seemed to smugly say OOT there's no pressure. And I was thinking not my experience.


It makes me laugh also. I have a lot of family OOT and we laugh about these attitudes together.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:36 pm
Crookshanks wrote:
Or how oot's are so polite and Lakewood/BP people are all rude. My coworker who lives out of town told me seriously, no sarcasm, that out of towners are better people than in towners. I was like, you actually believe that? And she did.


My sister in atlanta likes to say in the south everyone is polite to eachother but behind their backs they are mean vs in the north everyone is straight to each other to begin with. Both have pros and cons
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applesbananas




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:39 pm
small bean wrote:
There is peer pressure everywhere in every town, community and group. The pressures are different based on thr groups. There is also different kinds of pressure, items, spiritual, frugal, money, health etc.

It's a personality how much it effects a person.

I think there are other pros and cons to OOT living other than pressure.


So true. Dh grew up in Baltimore and he and my entire in-law fam felt so much peer pressure and always lived above their means. I grew up in town and didn’t feel it nearly as much. Totally a personality. Scared for my dd who’s just like dh and notices what everyone has and is doing etc
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:42 pm
keym wrote:
Of course there's more to oot vs in town than pressure.
I was just laughing at some of the threads that seemed to smugly say OOT there's no pressure. And I was thinking not my experience.

You'll get better responses to this in an anon enabled forum, especially from people who are from the smallest OOT communities.

You said you were from a big OOT community with multiple frum schools, so there was likely less diversity in any one school. That is very different from an OOT community with only one or at most two community schools, where kids from the entire spectrum of the community go, including even kids from non-frum homes.

There can still be pressure for some things, like bicycles, that are universal, but there is a lot more leeway to be different because everyone already looks different.
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Crookshanks




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:43 pm
small bean wrote:
My sister in atlanta likes to say in the south everyone is polite to eachother but behind their backs they are mean vs in the north everyone is straight to each other to begin with. Both have pros and cons

That's funny I never heard that Smile
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:45 pm
Best line I heard was from someone whose father was a rebbe in Providence
Then grew up a dozen other places before coming to Lakewood

"In Lakewood you see the knives coming at you "
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:54 pm
OOTforlife wrote:
You'll get better responses to this in an anon enabled forum, especially from people who are from the smallest OOT communities.

You said you were from a big OOT community with multiple frum schools, so there was likely less diversity in any one school. That is very different from an OOT community with only one or at most two community schools, where kids from the entire spectrum of the community go, including even kids from non-frum homes.

There can still be pressure for some things, like bicycles, that are universal, but there is a lot more leeway to be different because everyone already looks different.


I hear that.
But some of the pressure I mentioned is irrelevant if observance level (contact lenses and licenses). And some things become a bigger issue when you have a large range.
Because I lived in the city with several schools- LA, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, it was ok that my tv-viewing was more controlled.
I had a good friend raised in Kansas City or Omaha (I don't remember) and her parents didn't really want any movies but she pressured them to allow her to watch Disney (of the 90s) so at least she had something to add to the conversation.
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out-of-towner




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:58 pm
Totally depends on the kid, the family, and the city. That's my short answer.
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chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:59 pm
There are different social norms in different places. Sometimes people who are used to the way things are done where they're from consider people in other places rude.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 3:23 pm
keym wrote:
I hear that.
But some of the pressure I mentioned is irrelevant if observance level (contact lenses and licenses). And some things become a bigger issue when you have a large range.
Because I lived in the city with several schools- LA, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, it was ok that my tv-viewing was more controlled.
I had a good friend raised in Kansas City or Omaha (I don't remember) and her parents didn't really want any movies but she pressured them to allow her to watch Disney (of the 90s) so at least she had something to add to the conversation.

Right, I said some things are universal.

Regarding your point about pressure coming from a larger range, if the range is truly large, it should not be a major issue. If 1/3 of your friend's class watched no movies, 1/3 watched Disney only, and 1/3 watched Beverly Hills 90210, I doubt she would have been considered socially awkward for being in the first 1/3. She might have pressured her parents anyway, because she simply wanted to see movies (what kid isn't tempted?), but it wouldn't have been a question of major social consequences.

The very bare bones situation, where the only kids who keep Shabbos are the kids of kiruv families definitely creates social pressure on those kids, but that is not really an OOT community usually.

In my community, I don't get the sense that Chabad kids feel pressured to be yeshivish or MO or that MO kids feel pressured to be yeshivish or Chabad. There's a healthy size amount of all three and most of the kids seem to take it for granted that they are different.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 3:28 pm
Pressure doesn't end when you become an adult.

OOT adults still have pressure. Any group you belong to has some sort of pressure.

I have people in my life who are very into being frugal. I feel uncomfortable around them when they ask me questions. Like I have to excuse my Romaine lettuce. Or around very healthy people my pantry. This happens in every community in every place.

Your pressures just change bases on who you associate with.
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Crookshanks




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 3:30 pm
small bean wrote:
Pressure doesn't end when you become an adult.

OOT adults still have pressure. Any group you belong to has some sort of pressure.

I have people in my life who are very into being frugal. I feel uncomfortable around them when they ask me questions. Like I have to excuse my Romaine lettuce. Or around very healthy people my pantry. This happens in every community in every place.

Your pressures just change bases on who you associate with.

#imamother
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 3:35 pm
.

Last edited by Aylat on Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 4:06 pm
I literally never understood when people say in town and out of town.
I never heard such phrases growing up.
How does one get to decide if one place is in town or out of town? Smile
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 4:09 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I literally never understood when people say in town and out of town.
I never heard such phrases growing up.
How does one get to decide if one place is in town or out of town? Smile


Its funny that you say that. My parents in Midwest/West USA call anything on the East Coast OOT. So according to them, we in Lakewood are OOT, Brooklyn is OOT, Baltimore all OOT.
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