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No idea what do do!
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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 3:04 pm
I wanted to put this under "halachic issues", but I can't post anon there.

I will be running this past my rav, but I wanted to hear from you ladies first.

I recently got a job working for a caterer. I desperately need the money, and I have flexible hours. I have my own work area that I have control over. The only thing I am responsible for is chopping vegetables, breading schnitzel, and doing dishes.

The problem is the kitchen. I've never worked in a home kitchen before, I've always worked in supervised, industrial kitchens. It's very strange to me.

First of all, it's filthy, all the time. The floor is disgusting, and there are cockroaches. The boss just says "they're water bugs, they don't hurt anything." I'm not stupid, I know what a cockroach looks like.

There is very little sanitation. There is no dishwasher, and the faucet never gets very hot. All dishes have to be done by hand, and no matter how hard you try, they are still greasy. The boss says not to worry.

He's careful about keeping meat and dairy separate, but that's about it. He has two kids at home still. One had strep last week, and this week one has the stomach flu. The kids keep wandering into the kitchen and sticking their germy hands into the pots to taste things and get a snack.

I would never in a million years eat out of that kitchen. Just thinking about it grosses me out. I'm not even sure I can stay there and watch all this stuff happen.

My boss is a really nice guy, probably too nice IMHO. His wife is lovely, but seems helpless to control the chaos. I don't want to hurt them. They are good to me, but I just started and the boss doesn't want to hear anything from me.

Some of my friends know I started working there, they've seen the ads on social media, and they are asking me what the food is like.

Do I tell them the truth? I need my job, but I don't want to have my friends potentially get sick, and at the same time I don't want a fellow Jew to lose business because I know that his family is on a very thin budget.

I would be grateful to hear your point of view, as either a boss, a customer, or an employee. All comments are welcome.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 9:36 pm
No advice, I just want to avoid that a water bug and cockaroach are the same exact thing.
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tweety1




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 9:42 pm
A very old and experienced exterminator told me that cockroaches carry very many diseases and can be harmful if they go into food or onto dishes, counters, etc. Doesn't mean it will be harmful but it's possible. Most ppl don't know this. But I had an infestation a few yrs ago and that's when I learned abt it.
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 9:49 pm
I'd be so grossed out I would quit.
Would he allow you to do your work in your kitchen and bring the prepped food over when done?
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 9:51 pm
You can try just taking a neutral line and saying that you might be biased and you prefer not to comment on your employer.

They can do the regular kind of research and form their own conclusion.

They are asking you about the food, not the sanitary conditions. If they ask you about the kitchen, you might have to answer. You don't have to volunteer information.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 9:52 pm
What's the food like? "It's ok." Noncommittal shrug.
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bobeli




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 08 2021, 11:08 pm
Pardon my ignorance but places that sell food don’t have inspections, regulations, etc?
What about an hasgacha?
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naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 12:15 am
Personally I would find another job.
I just can't take the roach situation, I'm really sorry op.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 12:17 am
Is there a mashgiach that comes to check what's going on?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 3:09 am
He says there's a mashgiach, but I've never met him. That doesn't mean there's no supervision though. The mashgiach might come on one of my days off.

I can't cook from my kitchen because of that, and he won't even let me bring my own knives from home (his knives are really dull, and I hate them.)

To make things worse, I just found out last night that my rent is going up $100 a month soon. Now I really can't afford to quit.

The whole place is a health inspector's nightmare. I'm trying to find a new job, but it's not easy.

I still don't know what to tell people when they ask for a recommendation for the place.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 3:43 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He says there's a mashgiach, but I've never met him. That doesn't mean there's no supervision though. The mashgiach might come on one of my days off.

I can't cook from my kitchen because of that, and he won't even let me bring my own knives from home (his knives are really dull, and I hate them.)

To make things worse, I just found out last night that my rent is going up $100 a month soon. Now I really can't afford to quit.

The whole place is a health inspector's nightmare. I'm trying to find a new job, but it's not easy.

I still don't know what to tell people when they ask for a recommendation for the place.

I'd say something neutral but which does not encourage people to use this caterer's services. Something that anyone who can read between the lines can understand.

"It's okay" (said with an little tight smile). If pressed, you need to tell them that they should look elsewhere. This is a health issue. Yes, the owner's parnassa depends on having business... but he is expected to deliver food that is prepared under sanitary conditions and under proper kashrut restrictions.

And start looking around for another job ASAP.

(Can you train as a health inspector? Sounds like there is a need for this where you live!)

You say you have your own work area over which you have control. Can you insist that in your work area, you need things to be bug-free and kid-free?


Last edited by DrMom on Sun, May 09 2021, 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hatemywig




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 3:47 am
Everything about this sounds dysfunctional. I would be looking for a new job while putting my foot down about basic hygiene.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 5:18 am
DrMom wrote:
Can you insist that in your work area, you need things to be bug-free and kid-free?


I tried that. I gently told the kids that I was working with very sharp knives, and that they shouldn't be playing under my feet or reaching over me for something. I said that maybe they would have more room to play in their own rooms, or out on the porch.

The boss came in and said "I can handle my own kids." and he didn't ask them to move their games.

Bugs, I can step on. Kids, not so much.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 6:46 am
I would ask a rov.
Somehow get an objective party involved confidentially that cannot be traced to you.
I would want to make sure there's a mashgiach and healthy hygiene and sanitation.
And would do what it takes.
hugs and hatzlocha
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 6:51 am
It sounds dysfunctional.
I hope you find another job soon in better conditions.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 9:02 am
if people can really get sick from eating that food and you are not just being ocd about food hygiene then you really need to ask a shaila about whether you should report him to health authorities or warn him first etc
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 9:24 am
I hate to say this, but a lot of places making food/pizza...stores have roaches/mice or...and ppl are still eating the food without getting sick.

personally, id be disgusted and would not be able to work in an environment with roaches/waterbugs(im scared of them) and my work situation is very stressful in other ways, but, op, I really feel for you and know what its like to be forced to work for the money ....

about commenting on the food, I agree with others that you can say im biased because I work for them or a neutral comment that doesnt really answer the question...
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 9:35 am
I guess non Jewish workers who work in kitchens of take out places most probably put their hands in the food and taste at some point. Same thing as their kids but it’s really gross even though they probably don’t think it’s gross from their own kids.
Why wouldn’t they get an exterminator?? It’s their house! It must be all over...
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 10:19 am
Ask who's hashgacha it is and call them about it.
If you need a cover tell him your friend asked you to find out as she would maybe consider using his services.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 10:39 am
While we are on the subject, do we ever know about the sanitary conditions in food establishments?
We assume that they are as clean as we are at home, but it's not necessarily true. Afaik, the hashgacha only checks for kashrus, not cleanliness
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