How is it legal? | Imamother

mamma llama

Wed, May 12 2021, 12:20 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

And not discrimination to enforce that only vaccinated people can be admitted to a place?
Firstly, don't we have HIPAA laws (at least in the US) that protect our Healthcare privacy?
The vaccines have not been FDA approved. How can they demand the general public take a vaccine that has not been approved.
Many colleges, including all CUNY and SUNY colleges in NY as well as the University of California system are requiring that all students returning to classes MUST be vaccinated. How is this legal? Where are our rights!?

Disclaimer: I did not read through the 10 pages of this thread, so I might be repeating things that others said.

During a time of emergency (such as during a pandemic) the government is allowed to take away certain rights for the sake of the better good.

Also, I don't know about CUNY and SUNY, but I heard that some colleges are giving the option to take a rapid Covid test each time you go to college if you are not vaccinated.

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 7:45 am

Quote:

It may be true but I am really skeptical about anything on anti-vax sites.

At least one of these articles has a VAERS number, you can look both of them up on the CDC site if you feel more comfortable with that. Or you can search through the VAERS cases for young people.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 8:14 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

It may be true but I am really skeptical about anything on anti-vax sites.

At least one of these articles has a VAERS number, you can look both of them up on the CDC site if you feel more comfortable with that. Or you can search through the VAERS cases for young people.

Again, anything that happens to a person within the time frame for vaccine reactions is reported to VAERS. A cancer that is discovered a year after vaccination, which may have been connected to the vaccine, probably won't be reported so we probably have cases on VAERS that have no connection to any vaccine (maybe the kid abused another substance) and meanwhile we don't connect chronic illness to vaccines when there might actually be a connection.
We do know that vaccines occasionally cause deaths but it appears to be rare. It's not okay, however, in polite society to spread disease. The old dipper at the well that the whole town or school drank from has long been replaced with fastidious cleanliness and germ control. When I was a kid, the hypodermic needles used for injections and other health equipment that has been replaced by disposables, were sterilized and reused. That's something that people object to today, just as they object to the possibility that their kids will catch the measles from non vaccinated kids.

Laiya

Wed, May 12 2021, 8:27 am

southernbubby wrote:

Anyone who dies within a few weeks of getting a vaccine can report it to VAERS. Nationwide, possibly the same number of people previously died in nursing homes in that same time period prior to Covid but now they were vaccinated so it had to be reported.

ETA, the dead people don't report it. I mean someone else reports it

I understand that anyone can report to VAERS, but I was under the impression that in cases where there doesn't seem to be clear causality, as in nursing home residents dying of a stroke or heart attack, that those cases were not being reported?

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 8:48 am

Quote:

Reports of death are within 48 hours of the vaccine or the person got very sick within 48 hours and died from it after. The majority of deaths on VAERS are within 48 hours. Check it out.

Whatever standards you think VAERS has, there are less than 200 reported cases to VAERS of flu vaccine deaths per year, with the same standards. Less total reports to VAERS of deaths for all vaccines over the last 20 years than for covid vaccine over past 4 months. One total lifetime report of death for the meningitis shot. Why is there such a vast discrepancy between reports about the COVID vaccine and others?

The people who died in nursing homes from COVID had risk factors, definitely old age. The average death certificate for COVID listed 2.6 other reasons for death. The vaccine is a risk to the healthy.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:12 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

So the J and J was halted due to a handful of serious blood clots resulting in a couple of deaths and young women are being told to choose a different vaccine but 4000 "obvious" deaths were conveniently ignored? I find that hard to believe.
Yes Covid was more deadly in people who already sick but my perfectly healthy 65 year old cousin died 10 days after being admitted to a Miami hospital with covid.

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:37 am

Quote:

Politics and conflict of interest answers why J&J.
I'm really very sorry about your cousin. Age is unfortunately a risk factor.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:38 am

The answer;

Reuters
THU APR 8, 2021 / 4:56 PM EDT
Fact Check-VAERS data does not prove thousands died from receiving COVID-19 vaccines
Reuters Fact Check

Updated to correct repeated clause and quotation in paragraph 12.

By Reuters Fact Check

Viewed more than 21,000 times on Facebook, a video showing data collected by the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) claims that thousands of people died from receiving COVID-19 vaccines. The video, which fails to mention that anyone can report events to VAERS and that the database contains unverified information, describes reported deaths of individuals who died after receiving the vaccine as deaths caused by the vaccine, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has so far found no evidence that vaccinations led to patient deaths.

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Available fb.watch/4s9aQGkDhN/ , the video in question, shared over 1,700 times at the time of this publication and titled “COVID19 VACCINES DEATH TOLL CLIMBING!!!”, shows a person scrolling through a VAERS dataset of death reports and saying, “This is the list of all the people who have died from vaccines.” The narrator clicks on random entries, including a 38-year-old in New Mexico and a 65-year-old in Ohio who were both given the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, before saying that “the vaccine itself will kill you.”

The video’s caption links to the VAERS online database (wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html), which is run by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The general public may report events to VAERS, and a disclaimer on the CDC website says: “The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable” (here).

When downloading the data, users are presented with a further disclaimer that the data does not include information from investigations into reported cases. The disclaimer also says “the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality” (here).

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According to the latest data (here), 1,985 U.S. deaths of individuals who died after receiving at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccines have been reported to VAERS. Of these, 1,016 are listed as receiving doses from Moderna, 946 as Pfizer-BioNTech, 16 as Janssen, and seven as “unknown manufacturer.” In total, 1,579, or nearly early 80%, of these individuals were over the age of 65.

As stated here by the CDC, “Reports of death to VAERS following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.”

Of the 145 million COVID-19 vaccine doses administered in the United States from Dec. 14, 2020 through March 29, 2021, “VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.” Having reviewed “available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records,” the CDC found “no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths” (here).

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Dr. Dana Mazo, an assistant professor of medicine who specializes in infectious diseases at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, stressed to Reuters via phone the importance of distinguishing between association and causation when looking at post-vaccine death records.

“The idea is that we are vaccinating millions of people,” Mazo said, “and, unfortunately, when you look at 96 million people, some of them might die, and they would have died if they hadn’t been vaccinated.”

The fact that medically vulnerable individuals have had the earliest access to COVID-19 vaccines in the United States has also impacted the rate of post-vaccine deaths, Mazo said.

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As reported here by Reuters in January, healthcare workers and people in nursing homes have been at the front of the line, followed by older members of the general population and people with pre-existing conditions ( here , here ).

In a WebMD interview here , Dr. Joël Belmin, head of geriatrics and vaccination coordinator at l’hôpital Charles-Foix in Paris, said, “In older people, due to their great frailty, a significant amount of spontaneous mortality is expected. In a retirement home, one in five people die each year. It’s therefore difficult to directly attribute these deaths to the fact that these people were vaccinated.”

The CDC estimates that about 1.3 million COVID-19 vaccine doses were administered to residents in long-term care facilities as of Jan. 18, 2021 (here). By comparison, VAERS had received 129 reports of deaths following COVID-19 vaccination in long-term care facility residents as of January 18, 2021.

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Reuters Fact Check has previously debunked false social media claims misinterpreting VAERS data here , here and here .

VERDICT

Misleading. This video takes VAERS death reports out of context to falsely claim that thousands of U.S. vaccine recipients who died after getting the vaccine died as a result of getting the vaccine.

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This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here .

Our standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
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cbsp

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:45 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Whatever standards you think VAERS has, there are less than 200 reported cases to VAERS of flu vaccine deaths per year, with the same standards. Less total reports to VAERS of deaths for all vaccines over the last 20 years than for covid vaccine over past 4 months. One total lifetime report of death for the meningitis shot. Why is there such a vast discrepancy between reports about the COVID vaccine and others?

Because after any of the other vaccines listed one is not encouraged to sign up to report on their health, texted daily for feedback, etc.

Last edited by cbsp on Wed, May 12 2021, 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Silver

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:45 am

southernbubby wrote:

Somebody on here said that a recent study was done but I guess that it didn't impress the CDC or the WHO.

It was, and had to be privately funded vis a vis all the politics. I can try to find it and post later, unless someone better at searches can do it easier.

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:46 am

It doesn't conclusively prove it, and it was not proven to be unrelated either. Under normal circumstances, this would be looked into BEFORE continuing the vaccination program, as it was when less than 500 people died in 1976 from swine flu vaccine, and the correlation was no more proven. But apparently everyone has to decide for themselves if young people with no pre-existing conditions dying within 48 hours of getting the vaccine is enough of a reason to be wary of the vaccine. Especially since there are effective treatments for COVID itself.

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 9:48 am

Quote:

Because after any of the other vaccines listed one is not encouraged to sign up to report on their health, texted daily for feedback, etc.

One doesn't need a request for feedback to report a death within 48 hours of a vaccine. These deaths are not reported because a request for info.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 10:47 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Regarding effective treatments, why are countries such as India not using them? It great that they have destroyed possibly millions of idols because the idols allowed the virus to infect and kill them but they don't have to cowtow to the CDC or the FDA. Somehow people are not aware of effective treatment options.

amother

Lilac

Wed, May 12 2021, 10:57 am

southernbubby wrote:

J&J was halted because the type of blood clots reported were unusual, and because all 5 were the same type of clot. The FDA felt that this merited further investigation into whether there was a causal relationship.

The other deaths were not "ignored." They apparently do not demonstrate a pattern of unusual deaths, or deaths from unusual causes. If a 70 year old with heart problems suffers a fatal heart attack after taking a vaccine, its reported but is probably deemed not relevant. If 6 otherwise healthy people under the age of 40 do, its a concern.

The idea is to report EVERYTHING in order to see if anything unusual is happening. Does everything actually get reported? No. But things that are reported are still not necessarily causally related.

I'm sorry to hear of your cousin. May her neshama have an aliya.

#BestBubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 11:01 am

southernbubby wrote:

Pharmaceutical Industry gives donations/bribes to politicians all over the world, not just usa. So effective treatments were suppressed.

Phamaceutical Industry has more $$$ then most countries!

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 11:05 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Thanks! Great explanation! My cousin Ronnie was a guy.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 11:08 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Pharmaceutical Industry gives donations/bribes to politicians all over the world, not just usa. So effective treatments were suppressed.

Phamaceutical Industry has more $$$ then most countries!

I would imagine that people would go underground or use black market drugs. Entire medical systems are collapsing. Here in the frum community, HCQ was available under the table. I was afraid to use it though because the virus itself was causing an arrythmia.

southernbubby

Wed, May 12 2021, 11:37 am

From what I can find online, much of what is considered effective treatment is available in many countries without a prescription. One company discretely ships HCQ all over the world within 24 hours.
Now I realize that many poor people have no internet access or money for medication but I would imagine that politicians who accept bribes but still need to win elections won't get too far if their constituents die off.

HealthCoach

Wed, May 12 2021, 6:15 pm

Quote:

I guess this is what’s happening in India. They were doing much better before they started vaccinating.

https://greatgameindia.com/ind.....=true

amother

Lilac

Wed, May 12 2021, 6:21 pm

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

I guess this is what’s happening in India. They were doing much better before they started vaccinating.

https://greatgameindia.com/ind.....=true

The gentleman had 100% blockage in a vessel, and died of a heart attack.