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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Have you ever studied with non Jewish people?
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 9:10 pm
I just took an 8 month course. Shabbat and yom Tov were hard. I probably worked harder than most with less time but the school was fair and it was online and completely unrelated to politics to nothing there. Prior to Being frum most of my work/school was in non Jewish env although my university used to give all the yom I’m noraim off so I never had tests or assignments or class on them. I never knew what I had then but hey it was 1989 when I graduated the first time lol!
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NotLazySusan




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 9:11 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
She goes out of her way to make a kiddush hashem all the time yet she was called dirty jew and told that jews didn't really suffer in the holocaust etc... I mean actual antisemitism


I hear, I have not had that experience.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 9:11 pm
In grad school I was the only Jewish person in one of my classes and the other classes had around 2-3 Jewish people and 5-6 non Jewish people. It was a very nice experience and there was complete respect on both sides. The school calendar followed the Jewish calendar so no issues there.

In my working environment there are barely any religious Jews. I used to be uncomfortable Elul- Tishrei time and Pesach because it felt like I was forever taking off. At this point I’m completely comfortable in my own skin and I’m very open about the fact that I’m Orthodox . (I make it clear as soon as I meet someone for the first time and tell them I don’t shake hands for religious reasons.)

I’ve never had an issue. People have been very nice about it- no negativity at all BH.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 9:16 pm
I do remember one jewish not relig professor told us that when he teaches at a fancy top university in the same city he gets a hard time every year about not going in rosh hashana and yom kippur.
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 9:30 pm
I graduated 5 years ago from a part time college program. Everyone was really respectful, and I even made some friends. Was awkward at parties/ events with food.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 12 2021, 10:16 pm
For my undergrad I went to a major US university though most of my classes were through one of its smaller colleges. I didn't know any other Jewish person in the college and though there were other Jewish students at the main university campus, I didn't know many.

Honestly it was totally fine. My biggest issue was the wannabe political activists who really had no clue what the situation was actually like in the middle east, had never been to Palestine or Israel and were just part of the movement because it's seemed very en vogue.

One fun, unexpected experience was I took a course through the campus Beit Hillel in understanding the Talmud and half, if not more, of the students weren't even Jewish. It was fascinating to explore those texts with such a diverse group of minds.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 2:24 am
OP, are you coming from a small frum bubble, where you've never actually talked to a non Jew before?

It worries me when I hear frum people talking about non Jews as if they were aliens, a different species, and completely non relatable.

As for study, it really depends on so much, you can't just say "this or that". It depends on the year, because things are getting way more liberal. How active is BDS vs. Hillel. What part of the country, world, you are studying in. What studies are you taking? Gender studies will be different than fine art appreciation or advanced calculus.

What is the attitude of the administration towards diversity, the Palestine situation, individual complaints of harassment. Does the school have a history of harassment. Is the school predominantly Jewish, and there are a few non Jews in your class.

Talking to people who don't come from your background can expand your mind and your view of the world. Even if you totally disagree with them, it's excellent exercise, and you may even learn something. It's always healthy to have someone question your views, because it's important to be able to articulate where you stand and what you believe.

Of course, when you are studying trigonometry, that is the only thing you should be discussing, IMO.
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DVOM




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 3:41 am
My husband was the only orthodox Jewish student in his cohort of about 90. There were some other students who identified as Jewish.

I know he found taking off for yom tov very difficult. They didn't give him a hard time about it, but the expectation was that he was responsible for any missed work, and always playing catch up was hard.

My husband is a friendly and likable person, and made a lot of friends. He had a couple of standards he stuck to (no studying in do rooms, no after hours socializing). His classmates were respectful, kind, intelligent people.

His graduation was scheduled for a Saturday. It was very touching to see his classmates reactions. Without telling my husband, they set up a meeting with the Deen, asking for it to be held on another day of the week. The Deen couldn't switch it. So they offered to pick us up and drive us to the graduation (a three hour round trip). A group of friends also offered to give our family their apartment for the weekend so we could walk to the graduation. My husband declined their offers, but really appreciated the thought.

Lots of good people out there when you take the time to get to know them.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 3:53 am
YT is most difficult as Fridays in the winter. However here in the NL every uni/college etc needs to give you off when you are observant. In college some teachers didn't follow this rule, I fought against the fact that I was ''absent without a reason''. Classmates had fewer problems with my frumkeit than teachers especially 6 years ago... were teachers were more stigmatizing towards me and find it odd. Need to tell that in the area I live in, there is no big frum community. In Amsterdam, there are more Jewish students so the schools are more aware of this.
I did a few courses in gender studies and indeed this is different than calculus as FF said. However, I found gender studies really awesome I had a Chinese student, few orthodox Muslim women, and orthodox protestants in my class. The discussions were amazing and really interesting.
I found social studies (which I did in my early 20s) way much harder because here it means you need to do things together like LOTS of group projects and group work, and if there was YT or shabbos and I was not there I had feedback and discussions that this is not good and bla bla bla.... So it depends but in general yeah no one attacked me so far.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 5:52 am
I did a part-time post-graduate course recently. We were all working professionals and I think that made a big difference, as it's much more professional based, we were all very serious, it was very work focused. I wasn't trying to make friends, and they weren't really either.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:02 am
Yes, I did my Master's in a standard college. I had one jewish friend who did the program with me. Most people didn't realize we were Jewish. They just thought we dressed strangely.

I was absent A LOT compared to peers for YT, having a baby, etc. It was stressful but I managed ok.

I didn't love how intense people were about their studies compared to what I was used to. They had all this study "gear" - note cards, highlighters, special pens and markers, notebooks, dividers, fancy laptops and special coffee cups... While I had an old notebook with scribbles on the front and a clunky laptop. I always found the comparison entertaining. I guess school was very much their LIFE while my actual life (husband, kids, family) was my LIFE for me.

Now I work in a non-jewish environment and I actually love it. There is really no judgement. I can show up in a slinky skirt and my coworkers think it looks classy. Expectations are clear and boundaries are set. In frum environments (where I worked in the past), all those lines blurred and I found it frustrating at times.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:04 am
I am currently attending a nursing program in a CUNY college in Brooklyn. There are no frum Jews in my cohort. It’s a mix of Chinese, Muslim, Hungarian, and African Americans.
I was never exposed to such a setting before, so it was a huge eye-opener. My group was genuinely interested in our culture and I never experienced any negative attention. They ask nonjudgmental questions and inform me every time they eat chicken soup with matzah balls or latkes.
I can be absent for Yom Tov with no consequences. CUNY is anyways closed for most of the big holidays. I am very proud that there is a large amount of frum professors in my college (with tzitzes outside, black hat on).
The only negative, when I was taking low level credits (algebra, trig, anatomy) the swearing/ dirty language bothered me. Once I was in the actual nursing program, most students were much more refined and it was highly unlikely to hear swear words. When CUNY went online, that solved the problem too.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:14 am
I went to nursing school in downstate. There were 10 frum Jews in my class and an unknown number of non frum Jews. If you go to school anywhere in the NYC area likely they are already familiar with the needs of Othodox Jews. Outside NYC and major Jewish population areas it’s a different story.

Universities put a lot of emphasis on cultural competence and diversity. As much as people like to snicker at it it actually works to our advantage when you’re on a college campus trying to get your religious needs met. They have to at least pretend to respect your values and offer you alternatives.

As to who you get along with best, I find it has more to do with personality than background. My closest friend in nursing school had a Jewish sounding name and I was sure she was Jewish but it was actually her husband that was Jewish. We just saw eye to eye on a lot of things and our personalities were compatible.

I also went to school when I was older and was married with kids so the social scene in school just didn’t matter that much. Not to mention that if you’re in a professional program your focus is really on developing skills and you’re less focused on general philosophical questions and discovering the meaning of life.

I want to add that after school I moved away from NY to a neighboring state and I now work in an environment where most people have never seen a frum Jew in their lives. But there are a few transplanted New Yorkers and they can always peg me right away as a frum woman. It’s funny how much fellow New Yorkers are aware of us even if we don’t have much interaction.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:20 am
For me this came up in the workplace, but could come up in school. If there are very few Jews and people are not familiar with Jews at all, then it can be awkward when there are differences between you and the other 1-2 Jews.

I was temporarily located in a very small rural town with only one other Jew and very nice people were genuinely confused as to why he did certain things that I said I couldn't do. I had to explain in a way that didn't make him sound like a "bad Jew," and so I was always worried about offending him indirectly too.

Also, one time a well-meaning coworker came to report to me that he saw the other Jew eat a ham sandwich at a catered lunch, and looked expectantly at me, as if he expected me to do something about it. That was awkward too.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:20 am
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
Yes, I did my Master's in a standard college. I had one jewish friend who did the program with me. Most people didn't realize we were Jewish. They just thought we dressed strangely.

I was absent A LOT compared to peers for YT, having a baby, etc. It was stressful but I managed ok.

I didn't love how intense people were about their studies compared to what I was used to. They had all this study "gear" - note cards, highlighters, special pens and markers, notebooks, dividers, fancy laptops and special coffee cups... While I had an old notebook with scribbles on the front and a clunky laptop. I always found the comparison entertaining. I guess school was very much their LIFE while my actual life (husband, kids, family) was my LIFE for me.

Now I work in a non-jewish environment and I actually love it. There is really no judgement. I can show up in a slinky skirt and my coworkers think it looks classy. Expectations are clear and boundaries are set. In frum environments (where I worked in the past), all those lines blurred and I found it frustrating at times.


That’s funny. Academically I was always at the top of my class and I used to wonder why they couldn’t get it together despite being single while I was also juggling a home, kids, a job, pregnancy etc.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:22 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
She goes out of her way to make a kiddush hashem all the time yet she was called dirty jew and told that jews didn't really suffer in the holocaust etc... I mean actual antisemitism


In college now for the past few years, and have never experienced such behavior. I was always treated with respect, and of course treated all my colleagues and professors with respect too. All my religious needs were always accommodated, with some profs going out of their way to may it work for me.

YT is always hard, you miss a lot and you have to catch up on your own time. I'm really nervous about the upcoming YT this year. It's really going to make things difficult for the Fall semester.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:22 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
Has anyone graduated in the last 3 years? My friend was having a horrific time on campus right before corona the antisemitism from other students and professors was out of control.

Can everyone add what years they are referring to? I wonder if it's different now?


Curious which college your friend is in?
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:23 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
For me this came up in the workplace, but could come up in school. If there are very few Jews and people are not familiar with Jews at all, then it can be awkward when there are differences between you and the other 1-2 Jews.

I was temporarily located in a very small rural town with only one other Jew and very nice people were genuinely confused as to why he did certain things that I said I couldn't do. I had to explain in a way that didn't make him sound like a "bad Jew," and so I was always worried about offending him indirectly too.

Also, one time a well-meaning coworker came to report to me that he saw the other Jew eat a ham sandwich at a catered lunch, and looked expectantly at me, as if he expected me to do something about it. That was awkward too.


I remember in nursing school the frum students requested to wear scrub skirts instead of pants, and one of the girls used to show up in tight short skirts with no stockings. I heard other students grumbling that pants would have been more modest, and what could I say? I agreed with them!
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:26 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I remember in nursing school the frum students requested to wear scrub skirts instead of pants, and one of the girls used to show up in tight short skirts with no stockings. I heard other students grumbling that pants would have been more modest, and what could I say? I agreed with them!


Pants is in general more modest for medical professionals who do direct patient care.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Thu, May 13 2021, 6:35 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
That’s funny. Academically I was always at the top of my class and I used to wonder why they couldn’t get it together despite being single while I was also juggling a home, kids, a job, pregnancy etc.


Haha yes. It seemed like every little thing was very dramatic and a huge deal for my peers. I just went through the motions without all the drama.

I don't know if I was at the top of my class (I was always fine academically) but I definitely looked slightly dysfunctional compared to my peers and their gear and their "I studied for 7 hours!" brags! But I graduated and got a job just fine!
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