Med school | Imamother

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Med school

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amother

Emerald

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:13 am

I recommend watching the old PBS documentary MD Making of a Doctor and and then watching their update Doctors’ Diaries. Not for the faint of heart.

bruriyah

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:15 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Op what happens when you have a third or 4th child while in med school? Unless you plan to put kids on hold. I just dont believe its feasible for a mom. Lets say you get really bad morning sickness and it coincides with studying until 4 am and waking up at 6 am for an internship etc

But this happens to women with jobs they can’t leave all the time. Med school is no different. I made it through 2 pregnancies that were extremely difficult in the first trimester. Will try to elaborate in another post.

bruriyah

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:20 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Also make sure you shadow doctors and see what their day consists of. I have a lot of physicians in my extended family and many of them aren’t so happy. Medicine has changed a lot.

Ppl will always complain about any job. But being a doctor is still one of the best jobs to have, today too.

nylon

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 8:30 pm

In other countries medical school isn't always postgraduate; it's 7 years straight through and not 4 years post-BA. And then it would be cheaper also.

OP if you have family support I would do it. It will be hard work but if this is your dream it's worth it.

amother

Beige

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:27 pm

bruriyah wrote:

What about when OP will need to be away nights? For several months per year, if you add up the number of nights? How will that work? Med school is a far cry from the rigors of residency. Unless you plan on putting child bearing on hold, and/or have someone who can FULLY take over your role in a reliable way, it is just not possible.

amother

Springgreen

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:33 pm

I can barely handle nursing school pregnant. Maybe you're superwoman, I'm certainly not. But it's roughhh

vintagebknyc

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:46 pm

Check out this woman who graduated from Touro medical school this spring, Alexandra Friedman.

https://tourocom.touro.edu/new.....1.php

bruriyah

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:56 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

-During medical school, we were required to do about 5 nights in total, over 4 years.
-Most residency programs don't have you do *months* of night float. For example, during my upcoming intern year, I'll be doing 4-6 weeks of night float, over the entire year. The vast majority of hours spent working are during the day. Why can't her husband/family stay her children during these 4-6 weeks? It's not *extra* work for her husband, assuming they don't have a very small baby.
-most programs allow you to take a research year in the middle which is much lighter. You can use this break to your advantage.
-what you need is a division of labor that makes it work. Not a FULL takeover. Plus, there are heavier and lighter rotations/months. Not every waking moment in medical school/residency is brutal; people tend to focus on the hardest parts and forget that there are lighter times as well. For example, most medical schools don't require you to attend lectures in person during the first two years. This worked wonderfully for me. I listened to all my lectures while feeding my baby and took naps during the day instead of scrambling to get dressed and show up at a lecture hall. Of course this doesn't work later on during rotations. But, at least here in the US (don't know much about Israel), schools will try to work with you. They want you to graduate and MATCH successfully.

bruriyah

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 10:03 pm

Also, the more common it becomes to see medical students with children, the more accommodating schools will become.

Frumwithallergies

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 10:19 pm

So much depends on where OP is located.

Also, forgive me for saying, but it is very different for the wives to chime in about their husbands in med school. I had two babies while in residency, none during med school, and them more as a young staff. But costs for school, salaries in residency, maternity leave etc are very different outside of the US. I took six months per baby while in residency, and I had friends in med school who took one year. I am in Canada and work in a speciality. I was the only from Jew in med school, and the only frum Jew in my residency program, but B'H I made it work. I have 40h per week help at home (Nanny) while each of my kids was under two, and a strong division of labour with my dh. However, I made huge batches of challah at 5am Thursday mornings and froze a lot of food to make it work. Having family and grandparents close by also made a huge difference.

I think you really need to speak to from women in your country who have done this before for practical advice. Also make sure that your dh is on board, and that you are comfortable asking your rabbi about shabbos and being on call.

Pm me if you are in Canada and have questions (but know that different provinces have different issues at play).

bruriyah

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 10:28 pm

I met an Israeli student on one of my rotations and she said that training in Israel is less intense. For example, if you're a parent resident, it's common to leave for a bit during the day to make to a school event or something like that. Not common here is the US. She had other examples, but I don't remember them. I mean, it's just one person's opinion, but it's worth investigating what the culture is like in the place you plan to train.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:43 pm

I was dissuaded from doing med school bc it's not compatible with being a frum mother and all the arguments that are being cited here.
Irony is that in the field I eventually went into,
part time doesn't exist and it is incredibly challenging to balance my career and family. So my education may have been less intense than medical school (actually not even sure this is true) but at the end of the day, once you are finished med school there are specialties which offer flexibility. Med school is a small amount of time compared to the rest of your career.
If this is what you want and you have the support, go for it.

ally

Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:45 pm

bruriyah wrote:

Israeli culture is much more supportive of working women with families than the US in all fields.

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:31 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

this is why im sitting here on this thread. My only regret with medical school is not doing in younger.

amother

Almond

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:19 am

bruriyah wrote:

I'm totally think it's doable I just want to point out that the nights thing is med school/rotation specific. For example, dh had to do a full week of night float during his obgyn rotation, 2 nights during peds, none during Neuro, and a full week during surgery. This was all in med school.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:32 am

bruriyah wrote:

I'm not referring to medical school, I'm talking about residency. Medical school is a walk in the park as compared to residency. (in terms of schedule, work-life balance, and flexibility).

Intern year is just one year of several.

I'm talking about the amount of nights needed collectively. Actually, in many ways it's even more difficult when it is not consecutive night float.

Does OP not intend to have any more children for the next several years? The difficult time is residency, which is years down the line. Residency programs, from my experience, are just not flexible (my experience is as a wife, sister, sister in law, and daughter to physicians, male and female, trained in US medical schools).

I am mostly harping on the support aspect. I think it's doable if you have a spouse who is super flexible in his job and able to be around in every way needed, when needed. Or, if you have a full-time nanny. Otherwise, it (can be) a nightmare.

I recommend you lay out on paper the potential schedules you will have at the various stages of your journey, and consider the actual manner in which you would make those scenarios work and how it would play out in terms of coverage of your children/potential future babies. Then see how comfortable you feel with that arrangement.

Also, to clarify, I am specifically focusing on your children's physical and emotional needs more than anyone else in the picture.

Obviously the schedules vary enormously but there are basic elements: (early departure, late homecoming, nights, weekends, erev yom tov, erev shabbos as a start).

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:17 pm

I'd like to add-- I'm not wary of a woman's ability to "pull it off" in terms of the rigors or intensity of the hard work necessary. My concern, from the vantage point of an observer and participant in my own life's physicians, is whether you are ready to commit to the rigidity of schedule necessary, and how it may interact with your other values, as a mother in particular, and how it may impact your actual children and their needs.

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:38 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Med school is not a walk in the park compared to residency. Especially third year where you are expected to follow your resident's schedule PLUS study for exams on top of that. Many people prefer the working aspect of residency when compared with the enormous amount of studying done in medical school. And scheduling during residency it depends on so many factors. Some fields (psychiatry for example) are quite flexible. Also depends on the program.

You are 100% correct that you need support and preferably a spouse that is more flexible. But the OP mentioned that her husband works a regular job, not something as intense as medicine. Also, when you see things second-hand, you are more likely to pick up on the negative parts. People complain about everything they do. They rarely say things like: I'm so happy I'm a docotor... something I make a point of doing.

You bring up valid points. But the culture in medicine is in flux right now; things are changing, at least in the US. Many residency programs (like the one I'm in) have adopted a legal 3-month leave for women who give birth or ppl with sick family members, and you can still graduate on time. The residency program I'm starting-there are 3 women with children and 1 who is pregnant and will give birth during intern year. Personally, I have no regrets because I took a research year that coincides with the birth of my second child (1st born during summer break) and was able to take 2.5 months off.

I think if the OP decides on medicine, she can start on her premed track and then always switch out to something lighter if it becomes unfeasible.

huff

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:48 pm

Do it! If you feel passionate about it you'll find a way. I've just finished a four year full time degree. I had one kid when I started and had another whilst studying. It was hard but so so worth it. So many people told me not to, hinted that I would have babies and give it up, and you know what? I didn't! I could have been miserable in my dead end job still but now I'm doing something I love and my kids have a tired but super fulfilled and happy mom!

amother

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:44 pm

Thank you everyone for taking the time to answer and advise. Hug

I really appreciate it!

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