Dd talks with chutzpah. Advice?

amother

Hunter

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:33 am

#BestBubby wrote:

If 6 y.o. is not taught not to name call when upset she will be abusive as adult.

So we teach our kids how to talk properly. At 6 it's age appropriate and instead of getting angry, punishing, and yelling, we have a conversation about how not nice it is to call people names and we discuss how to talk nicely. And parents also need to learn to ignore sometimes. We don't need to hear, see, and react to everything.

tp3

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:34 am

#BestBubby wrote:

But do you at least agree that respect must be taught and that abuse (name calling weirdo) should not be acceptable?

Of course. But you don't clean your kitchen with a bulldozer.
Not every time when a child does something is a reaction or intervention necessary.
When there's tension, there are many ways to diffuse it that also build the relationship plus have a longer lasting effect. Art, music, humor, etc.
Punishment, asserting authority, causes more tension.
There are other ways to teach respect, that won't have you repeatedly punishing and asserting your authority.

keym

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:35 am

My 3 year old has accidents a few times a week.
I'm scared he's going to do it as an adult, make his wife or Rebbi change him, so I'm going to crack down on him. Punish him every time he has an accident. Confiscate his toys.
TEACH HIM A LESSON!!!!!!!!!

Or? I acknowledge that it's age-appropriate. Stop thinking about what he will be like in the future because I can't control it. And gently and calmly continue reiterating the appropriate behavior until eventually, hopefully he learns. Without threatening. Without punishing. With calm reminders
And reminding myself that I can guide him, but I can't cause or create his behaviors

Age-appropriate back talking is the same.

#BestBubby

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:00 am

keym wrote:

We don't see any non diagnosed adults who are not toilet trained.

We DO see many non diagnosed adults who are abusive.

On the parenting threads, there are so many parents who said they told their children
name-calling is not nice, who MODEL speaking respectfully to their child even when the
parent is upset and...

the TEEN-AGER is still abusive.

Did NOT learn from just gentle reminders and modeling respectful communication to do the same.

keym

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:05 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Again, the point is that saying no, backtalk, mild chutzpa is age-appropriate for a six year old. No need to bring out the punishments, the threats for age-appropriate behavior.

And it's a bad idea to parent from fear of "what if he won't outgrow it". It just makes a parent hysterical and fear the worst. And it's bad form to scare an OP who's daughter is dealing with an age-appropriate behavior to scare her that her child will turn into a monster.

#BestBubby

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:11 am

Respectfully disagree.

It is much HARDER to get an older child to stop talking disrespectfully then a 6 y.o.

As I said, this site is full of Women crying over the abuse from their husbands and
their older children.

In every thread about extreme chutzpah in teen-agers the mothers said they never
punished, they just said "not nice" and modeled speaking respectfully to their children
even when the children were insulting them...

Guess what? It did NOT work!

tp3

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:26 am

#BestBubby wrote:

You can punish from today to kazoo and it also doesn't work.
Chinuch isn't bop them down so that they never stand up again.
They will stand up again but maybe not next to you. You will not be part of their real life. Only the part of the life where everything is smoothed over and shiny in deference to the holy Image we must all present.
I know people who speak respectfully to their parents but they do not respect them one bit. They actually hate them. Speaking respectfully is nothing more than an act. But the parents congratulate themselves on their "success" because they have no idea.

#BestBubby

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:30 am

allthingsblue wrote:

All of the abusive adults I know had controlling yelling strict parents. None of them had parents who modeled talking gently but firmly and respectfully.

I agree that yelling is disrespectful and out-of-control.

I did not tell OP to yell.

I said to TEACH how to express anger respectfully "It makes me so angry when I have to
go to bed when I am in middle of playing."

If a child speaks respectfully, then the parent can say - "OK, 5 more minutes. I liked how respectfully you asked."

But if the child screams at parent "You WEIRDO! NO! I will not go to bed Now!"

Then the Parent cannot say, "Oh, Darling, it's too hard for you to stop playing?
OK, you can have another five minutes"

Because that is REWARDING Bad Behavior!

I told OP to Teach respectful communication when angry.

And to give a Consequence if DD continues to speak disrespectfully.

I specifically said to be very CALM - No Yelling, No Anger, No Hurt.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 11:34 am

tp3 wrote:

This is incredibly true and wise. You need to write a book! DD is grown up now, and I'd still buy it.

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:32 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

All of the abusive adults I know had controlling yelling strict parents. None of them had parents who modeled talking gently but firmly and respectfully.

This a million times

And then there are us who were raised with abuse and were unwilling to treat our children without dignity.

My children are bh grown and are the most wonderful respectful humans

amother

Mulberry

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:39 pm

In my honest opinion, there is nothing wrong with your kid. She just wasn't taught boundaries. Very matter of fact say - we don't talk like this to mommy. Say _____ instead.
Your expectations for her are way too high.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jun 14 2021, 12:43 pm

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

I wouldn't assume that. All kids push boundaries, it's part of development. Kids learn about their world by pushing against it.

They are realizing that they are people too, and they wonder what that means. "I'm not a baby, I'm not an adult, where do I fit in?"

The kid who is "perfect and quiet" is a kid who's had the spirit beaten out of them.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:01 pm

OP, check out the thread "DD 16 Chutzpah"

Here is the first post:

She is extremely successful in school academically, very popular, teachers tell me she is a role model very kind to all the girls and very talented and a leader in organizing school projects. We had and have some problems at home. Mainly with dh it used to be worse but now he is just very selfish easily to get provoked. I learned how to put boundaries for dh and now he is ok at home for about ten years or more. because all of my past marriage problems in contrast to dd I don’t have many friends in the community (I used to have a lot of friends when dd was a baby). She is my youngest. She calls me weirdo, the worst mother in the world, I hate you, go kill yourself, go clean up (she doesn’t help), shut up, get out of my room and more. I was tolerating it because right now I have low self esteem and I thought that it will pass because she is a teen. My older children also passed this phase and now are very respectful and loving to me. Wwyd

This is what happens if you don't stop Abuse when kids are little - it gets Worse.

amother

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:46 pm

Thank you for all your replies!! love how this thread got derailed to abuse. I really don't' think she'll become an abuser in that sense. she's a good kid and is only in 1st grade. I just have to teach her and I need the skills and help to do that.

Thanks for all the insight. FF I will look into that book you suggested.

I think I need to focus on not saying 'no' to things but giving options like some of you suggested. here's a start!

thanks for all your help!