Need advice how to approach topic

elmommy

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 7:42 pm

Some basic family background- I am from a large family of lots of girls and BH we are pretty close and close in age. My parents raised us so that external titles and images aren't important and it's most important to follow TOrah and Mitzvos to best of our ability and we went to "open-minded beis yaakov" schools/camps and some modern orthodox schools/camps as staff kids. That being said, those of us who are married, all married bnei torah from different backgrounds who all spent time in klei kodesh/are in klei kodesh even if hashkafically are a bit different- ex: right wing YU vs yeshivaish (if we need to label here).

Now the dilemma- my sister is BH engaged and the shabbos kallah/aufruf is being discussed now. my husbands rabeim are of the opinion that families should not separate to go to both (men at aufruf and girls at shabbos kallah) and the chosson is from a more modern background. before it was even being discussed my husband said he will not leave me alone for shabbos. I had assumed that we wouldnt be doing this because logistically it's complicated (leaving all the married siblings with our little kids alone with no husbands to help doesnt sound fun at all). I found out this week that the plan is for the men to go away and the girls to stay back with my sister. my husband is gonna flip when he finds out. he doesnt have the best relationship with my family (more neutral) and he's gonna wanna follow what he believes about leaving me and my three kids under three alone for shabbos. I happen to think its a terrible idea because of the number of kids to adult ratio. If we stay home and dont go were gonna be the only ones not at either and its gonna be a big deal. if we do go its gonna be a big deal for shalom bayis.
I dont even know how to bring this up and who im supposed to bring it up with first- my husband or mother to let her know theres a chance were not coming.

zaq

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:02 pm

And I will beg to differ.
It's your sister getting married, not your dh brother. If your dh is not at the aufruf, what difference does it really make? The chosson will be swamped with new relatives-to-be and unlikely to notice that one future bil is missing. Leaving you to manage alone with three under three? Not a good idea.

OTOH--will you actually be "alone" with three under three? Won't you be with all the females in your extended family?

Leahh

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:19 pm

I really wonder how the question was posed to the rav.
Wording and a clear explanation is everything.
When asking, your dh could have very well said it in a way that made it seem like it wasn't really an issue to not split up so the rav went with it.
If the rav knows the logistics of what's planned he may very well say that for shalom your husband should go to the aufruf and you to shabbos Killah.
It sounds like dh discussed it with the rav prior to any concrete plans being made. Now that there are plans its time for a follow up conversation with the rav.

elmommy

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:22 pm

No this specifically was not discussed with rav cuz we both assumed this would not be applicable cuz of the reasons I said.
He feels this way because of how his rebbe spoken of this in the past. His rebbeim have told him that they feel strongly that families should not be split the shabbos before a wedding. My husband doesnt know that this is happening even cuz I dont want to tell him yet cuz of above reasons.

Leahh

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:27 pm

The sooner you bring it up the better off you'll be.
Just tell him you heard these are the plans an you're not sure what to do. Maybe he will have a good idea or you can straight out ask him to discuss it with his rav.
What a rav says in general is not necessarily the answer across the board. Sometimes a specific situation warrants a different approach and that's why now that you have the full picture, bring it up to your dh and have him discuss it with his rav. If his rav says don't split then he should follow up with Ok, how to handle the family and what to tell them.

essie14

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:27 pm

zaq wrote:

I agree.
OP, can you stay nearby with your DH and kids?

lovemymom

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:36 pm

I think this is a question for a rav if you really want to go then you can present it to your husband that way. That you will ask his rav and both listen to that opinion. That way you're getting an unbiased opinion but also an opinion from someone who is immersed in torah and being a messenger from Hashem to do what is good for you.

On the other hand, if you don't care to go I don't think it's such a big deal. You can easily not insult the Kallah and mother . Don't discuss too much just say me and my husband decided it will be easier for the kids if we stay home we wish we could come etc.

Personally, I find there to be a lot of "must do's" by wedding that nobody's really enjoying anyway, or at least I don't and im over it. Must match. Must take pictures, Must go to this sheva vrachos and the shabbas kalla, and and and. No you don't.
The kalla and chosen are getting plenty of attention and hopefully enjoying themselves. No need for there to be chaos and dividing families. Just do what works for you and don't make it about you or ur husband.
You can always sensitively ask the kallah when she is alone, without making it about your husband , but just about life circumstances and see what she says, that is assuming you don't care to go.

Purple2

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:39 pm

nchr wrote:

Is there some kind of confusion here? In my experience, it is standard for men to go to a bavarfen and the women stay behind. This is not considered modern.

Exactly.
Why is a rav involved in this.
I’m very yeshivish klei kodesh, we would never ask a rav for this. My husbands gone to family simchas for Shabbos and I’ve stayed with local family when needed. Why in the world is that a problem.
I know so many super yeshivish rabbanim who do this. I’ve been to chinuch conferences also with only either husband or wife being there.

BatyaEsther

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:40 pm

I happen to be a team player.
It will be exhausting to go for Shabbos to the SK with the kids and DH will be a little uncomfortable at the Aufruf. But I would suck it up. Your sister is hopeful getting married only once. You want her to feel special and you want the chosson to feel wanted , welcome and important to the family. Stay home speaks volumes and is offensive. Please G-d you will have hundreds upon hundreds of Shabboses to spend with DH. This is a one time event and it is important to your sister, future BIL (and likely your parents). Suck it ups and go. It is one single exhausting Shabbos and your attendance lack there of will speak volumes and set the tone for your relationship with family in the future.

That being said, speak to DH first. Explain, beg, bribe, cajole if you must. Do not fight with him or make it an issue of strife between you. You are a team and as a team you need to band together and do what you need to even if it is unpleasant, but don’t fight with him or get nasty. Seek his assistance, understanding and help.

lovemymom

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:41 pm

Also you should definitely discuss it with your husband. It's confusing to me why he doesn't want to go. Is it because he doesn't want to leave you with three kids? If so thats very sweet.But, if you still want to go why don't you just reassure him that it's what you want to do. Is it rather because he doesn't think he'll enjoy himself there?

nchr

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:43 pm

Purple2 wrote:

Hey I didn't want to say op shouldn't listen to her rav. She should listen to her rav. I was just saying it sounds like there is some sort of confusion possibly since this is not considered modern and is very standard in the chassidishe world (don't know about others).

womanwithaplan

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:43 pm

SafeAtLast wrote:

When a Rav makes such a call it is usually directly to the chosson kallah or the parents.
I doubt he meant you as extended family.

Chassidish here and it happens plenty that the men go to Shabbos aufruf for sisters Shabbos kallah, and the women stay behind.

Chassidish here, and we (my husband and I) always thought of it as the weirdest thing to split up a family for shabbos just to have them attend a simcha. In many families the father works long hours and the only real time for connecting as a family is during shabbos meals.

We usually don't cooperate; we'll gladly attend lchaim, tenoyim, wedding, sheva brachos and shabbos sheva brachos. Local aufrufs he'll pop into shul to say mazel tov.

Shabbos meals with our family together is not something we're willing to give up Wink

LisaS

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 1:49 am

Making a simcha and pleasing all sides is complicated enough as it is.

I would have dh ask his rav, and if the rav forbids it of course he shouldn't go.

If the rav doesn't forbid it, you should each put your personal discomfort aside for a family simcha. BH the sisters will help each other with the children, and you'll live to tell the tale.