S/o Speech paycheck- how to help girls know the options?

amother

Vanilla

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:28 am

I think the key is working while in school. Otherwise college is just an extension of high school and there's no real work life experience. They should be juggling. They should be feeling what it's like to gain satisfaction while making money. It can help them laser in on what they like and maybe pivot while in school to something that really gives them a sense of accomplishment.

ETA: They should be paying for their own things to realize what money is worth.

amother

Denim

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:37 am

amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:

Right, our girls should be getting married, having babies, while earning degrees and supporting their families singlehandedly, all at the tender young ages of 20-25.

amother

Papayawhip

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:47 am

amother [ Nemesia ] wrote:

That's great that your daughter has that assurance. It makes a huge difference. Most parents would love to be able to provide that.

However, reality is, most parents can't, therefore the girls don't have the luxury of that assurance, and that's why the rush. Either the issue is that of girls knowing they have to prepare to be the breadwinner at the start of marriage going forward, or they feel they must be ready to be married in their very early 20s (or a combination of those).
Take away either of those factors and you don't have the pressing issues expressed on this thread.

We're not promising her "full support"
She has part time jobs while in school and I assume her future husband will have as well (again, We're not looking for a kollel guy)
We're just letting her know we'll be there as her safety net for the first couple of years if needed. My parents did this for me. Kept me on their insurance, paid for my cellphone, gave us groceries from their house etc... while we were figuring ourselves out. I'm not going to cut her off just because she gets married but provide her with the same things I would give her if she was in school and still living at home. She'd have to pay her own rent from her jobs but the other stuff I'm paying for now so what's the difference?

amother

Nemesia

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 9:15 am

amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:

I agree with most of your post. But then, they would need to push off marriage. You can't live off part time jobs while in school while being totally self sufficient as a married couple. Do you agree the accepted age for starting shidduchim should be raised as well?

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 12:19 pm

I grew up secular and went to an excellent public school where we had a fancy career center and the focus was all on getting a high-status job. Guess what? I’ve switched careers 3 times and am finally happy as a...speech therapist!! LOL

High school kids don’t know what they really want to do and the only way to find out what a job is like is by doing extensive volunteer work in that setting so you see the good bad and ugly. But even if you know about the job, you don’t really know what life is going to throw your way, and a career that seemed great on paper may not work for a mommy. I think kids (boys and girls) need to focus on getting work experience and marketable skills, while working on a longer term plan at the same time. My young adult kids all have something they can do to pay the bills and something they’re pursuing bc they think it’s a good long term fit for them. This way they have a backup option and don’t get stuck IYH. I think the disappointed SLPs are the ones who worked hard and took on unreasonable debt and have nothing else on their resume besides speech, so they feel trapped.

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 10:04 pm

I’m laughing that this is another thing parents are blaming the “system” for.
Many of my secular relatives have changed majors during college, or careers while working.
Some of my non Jewish colleagues have done the same. They changed careers or went back to school when they weren’t happy with what we’re doing.
For my own daughters, I am taking responsibility. It’s not their school or some “organization” that someone has to start. It’s me their mother helping them with career choices.
My daughters go to a frum program so they met with the counselor from the program for guidance. We did our research as their parents and helped with their decisions as well.
Why is everyone constantly not taking responsibility for their own kids and making it like the Bais yaakov system is failing.
Parents can go to the college guidance counselor or a career coach for help. It’s not some hidden secret that there are ways to figure it out

amother

Cantaloupe

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 10:28 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

Changing careers or majors is a bit different than the issue at hand.

This is about very sheltered girls having limited career options and being pressured to choose a career that is not a good fit for them

Your relatives most likely had many career options. I had three.

It’s kind of easy to be resentful about your dissatisfaction in your career when you never actively chose your career.

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 11:02 pm

amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote:

Why were you limited.
For the record, my daughters went (and still have more going) to the most yeshivish schools and then to BJJ for seminary.
They are the exact “sheltered” girls your talking about.
I’m honestly confused why a parent can’t help their child figure it out. We were not limited at all with my first few daughters, and we’re the typical sheltered people you’re referring to.
I have a brain, and I use it to figure out what works, the same way I’m figuring what camps and yeshivish make the most sense for my boys. I do my research and discuss with kids.
I’m seriously not understanding what’s stopping any parent from doing that.
My yeshivish friends (some do send daughters to school, some don’t) research as well

amother

Yellow

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 4:28 am

amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:

Yes absolutely. That's part of it.

I agree, too. But, it's such a societal pressure to marry young that most parents can't handle the though of an "older" single daughter of 24 that I don't think it's changing anytime soon. Too bad. It would help so much, including the frequent posts here about burnt out young moms who weren't ready to be tied down and burdened financially at such a young age, parents burdened with helping out their young married couples who need so much hand holding etc. As well as finishing their schooling and settling into a job first!

ora_43

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 4:45 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

I agree, too. But, it's such a societal pressure to marry young that most parents can't handle the though of an "older" single daughter of 24 that I don't think it's changing anytime soon. Too bad.

I don't think the issue is mostly society or parents. People want romance. People want s-x. People want someone to be close to. Yes, being single is harder if all your friends are getting married, but for most of the world it's never going to be easy.

Remember that the people who aren't marrying young (in secular society), are mostly still dating young and often getting into very serious relationships.

Maybe for one individual here or there deliberately waiting until age 24 or 26 to start dating is realistic. But I don't see that being a solution that's going to work on a broader scale - not because of arbitrary societal rules, but because of human psychology.

amother

Nemesia

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 8:52 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Mmm, no. That's not what the crux of this issue is. It's not about "wanting". It's that many Lakewood girls graduating seem pretty apathetic about their future and have a sense of lacking ability to make choices, similar to a high school mentality.

Because they fully expect to be married and living it up within the next couple of years, with minimum effort on their part. Even shidduch efforts are thru their parents, they just have to shop for a beautiful wardrobe on parents' credit card. They have no concept of planning ahead, working towards something, or aiming to be truly independent.
So yes, it is the crux of the matter.

amother

Raspberry

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 9:35 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

These events appeared to be sponsored by local offices, which makes me think they won't be discussing a true range of options.
These days, many Lakewood girls are skipping the degree factories and going straight from seminary to the offices -- or even skipping seminary and going straight from high school to offices. These girls approach work initially as an extension of school in some ways -- something they are doing an because it's the next step in the pipeline, and just a place to follow authority and silently resent it. Only difference is that now they are earning a paycheck.
These offices open exploit the girls with low salaries, expect them to work Erev yt and chol hamoed, and take advantage of them in other ways. The jobs are repetitive and unstimulating. I'm concerned about this becoming the new normal. However after several years in an office it is possible to earn a respectable salary.
That being said, I just don't think many options are truly practical. For example, as I posted in the other thread, my nature would be to go into academia. But how would my family have lived during all my schooling?
And I just don't see any BY school encouraging its students to go, say, to law school.

They are starting these girls pay at 20$ per hour! That's not low at all

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 9:40 am

amother [ Nemesia ] wrote:

The people I'm referring to are NOT living it up...

lfab

Mon, Jun 21 2021, 9:00 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

You talk about your secular relatives and non-jewish colleagues going back to school or changing careers if they are unhappy in their field. However, many frum women just don't have the resources to do that. If you are 35 with 6-7 kids, (or even 28 with 3 kids) and paying yeshiva tuitions unless your husband makes a really good income you just don't have the luxury of deciding to quit your job to go back to school. Or even to switch jobs and start all over, with an income that reflects that. Most of the secular people I know who are in their upper 20's are not married and by mid to late 30's have max 1-2 kids. It gives them a lot more flexibility to change careers if they are unhappy. You can't compare that to a frum mother juggling a job, multiple little kids, often with a husband who is also working long hours and therefore not around to help much so most of the household responsibilities fall on her, shabbos to make each week (plus y"t) and only 1 weekend day to get things done. Most people just don't have the ability to change tracks while raising a family. There may be individuals who can do it, but most simply can't, that's just the reality. So yes, parents could, and absolutely should, do their best to help their children find a suitable career, but sometimes you just don't know until you're in it whether it's right for you.