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Neighbor Banned Her Daughter From Playing in Our Home
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amother
Mimosa


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 4:23 am
Yes how can this possibly be compared to Jews who literally went hungry and who gave up the security of a steady job??

Actually this whole thread reminds me of the story my mother told me many times as growing up as one of the few Jewish (and even fewer Orthodox) families in a small town where she and her sibs had to attend public school out of necessity (1950s) and being told by a classmate who had previously been her friend "My mother said I can't play with you because you are Jewish" after having an innocent playdate where her mother obviously realized her daughter's new friend was a Jew. And my mother as a little girl holding her head up high and moving on, looking forward to one day living in a big Jewish community where her kids wouldn't have to deal with that kind of hurt or being an outcast...never dreaming that a Jewish child would ever ever make such an excluding proclamation to another based not at all on halacha (my mother is probably the most careful person abt Kashrus that I know because of the awareness she was raised with not to eat in another home but she was able to maintain her frumkeit while being friends with people who were not religious to the same extent or not even Jewish). It's sad.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 4:48 am
Under my screen name.
I have banned my kids from friends houses. I guess I've been "bentched" with some gems of friends parents. The parent who "doesn't hold" of allergies and refused to check labels before giving out snack. The parent who believed that 5 year olds can be supervised by a 7year old while the mother ran out to the grocery store. The family where the older teenage son creeped me out in his attentions to his preschool sister and my daughter.
I never told these families but I also never told my kids.

All those who think the mother is to be lauded for increasing kedusha or whatever. Here's the thing. Not parallel, but an example it's the difference between banning going to a family because their OTD teenager is acting inappropriately in public IN FRONT OF THE KIDS (drinking, drugs, girls, foul language, whatever) or banning a family because of the fact that they have an OTD child
The former, I can respect as a necessity and parents call despite being hurtful. The latter is just plain hurtful and unnecessary.

The same thing. I can 100% understand not wanting your kids being involved with phones and internet's, especially in circles where we sign to restrict our children's access. That would mean telling the parent no screens for the kids, and maybe the mother shouldn't be glued to the screen while hosting. (I wouldn't make that call, but I hear it) as opposed to what's happening now - banning a child just FOR OWNING THE PHONE.

OK. Let the tomatoes fly.
I was brave and posted under my screen name so be gentle.
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amother
Mimosa


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 5:12 am
It's so arbitrary to say they can still play just friend can't cross the threshold of op's house not even on Shabbos. Obviously op's daughter has not been sharing info gained from a smartphone with friend, she herself is an acceptable friend. And why not on Shabbos? Have her daughter come home before it ends. Banning her from stepping foot over the threshold of the house in such a dramatic ways smacks of smugness and superiority. *we* don't walk into a house owned by smart phone owners type. No need to be so dramatic about it.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 5:24 am
keym wrote:
Under my screen name.
I have banned my kids from friends houses. I guess I've been "bentched" with some gems of friends parents. The parent who "doesn't hold" of allergies and refused to check labels before giving out snack. The parent who believed that 5 year olds can be supervised by a 7year old while the mother ran out to the grocery store. The family where the older teenage son creeped me out in his attentions to his preschool sister and my daughter.
I never told these families but I also never told my kids.

All those who think the mother is to be lauded for increasing kedusha or whatever. Here's the thing. Not parallel, but an example it's the difference between banning going to a family because their OTD teenager is acting inappropriately in public IN FRONT OF THE KIDS (drinking, drugs, girls, foul language, whatever) or banning a family because of the fact that they have an OTD child
The former, I can respect as a necessity and parents call despite being hurtful. The latter is just plain hurtful and unnecessary.

The same thing. I can 100% understand not wanting your kids being involved with phones and internet's, especially in circles where we sign to restrict our children's access. That would mean telling the parent no screens for the kids, and maybe the mother shouldn't be glued to the screen while hosting. (I wouldn't make that call, but I hear it) as opposed to what's happening now - banning a child just FOR OWNING THE PHONE.

OK. Let the tomatoes fly.
I was brave and posted under my screen name so be gentle.


I can’t imagine that anyone would disagree with you.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 5:44 am
mommy3b2c wrote:
I can’t imagine that anyone would disagree with you.


Not everyone would agree with "banning" if the parents are on screens during the playdate. Not everyone would agree with banning if the playdate involved screens without parental permission.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 5:51 am
keym wrote:
Not everyone would agree with "banning" if the parents are on screens during the playdate. Not everyone would agree with banning if the playdate involved screens without parental permission.


Normal people would. I think the parents on screens is a bit much, but if I respectfully asked you to not be on your smart phone in public while my child came over to play, I can hear that.

As to your other example, not allowing screens during a play date is very basic. Even for kids who do watch tv.

I would never dream of allowing my child’s play date to watch anything on a screen without permission. And if the parent asked me not to allow screen time and I ignored their wishes? That is a very valid reason for them to not allow their child to come to my home. Who knows? Maybe next time I’ll tell them not to serve peanuts to my highly allergic child and I’ll ignore that too?
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amother
Yarrow


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 5:58 am
chanchy123 wrote:
They might be moser nefesh but in no way is this comparable with being moser nefesh for keeping mitzvot - it just is not.
It is completely forbidden to violate the halachot of Shabbat, while there is nothing inherently against Judaism in using technology in the home or out of it - it simply cannot be considered in the same category and it cheapens the sacrifices our forefathers made in order to keep the basic tenets of Judaism.
Not only that, by making such comparisons, you are painting almost all Imamother posters, and many many many shomer Torah Imitzvot, Yirei Shamayim communities and individuals with the same brush as those Jews who assimilated in the early 20th century.
These things are in no way comparable.

No I am comparing the posters making leitzanus and suggesting these women belong on mars to those who mocked our grandmothers. Whether it floats your boat or not don’t mock people trying to keep their families pure.
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amother
Camellia


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:19 am
wif wrote:
Some car accidents are made worse because people are wearing seatbelts. Sad, but true. I'm still going to make sure that my kids are wearing seatbelts, though.

And I never said it's the most important thing I can do for my family. I do many, many things for my family. Getting off of Facebook is of them.


The analogy is not a good one. If you want to make it fit, it would be that you wouldn't allow your children into any cars, and wouldn't allow them into home that people own a car. To compare the actions, it would be like you're bypass the seatbelts and any other safety features, and you're banning the entire car just because it has capabilities of causing an accident.

The smartphones also has safety features - there are filters, there are passwords, there are lockboxes, and more. But you're choosing to push that aside, and ban the entire thing. The smartphone has become (or will definitely be) a necessary tool in our lives, and banning tech is just like banning a vehicle. It is really of no difference. Both are essential, and both have the possibility of causing injury. Should we lock ourselves back into the 19th century because vehicles can be dangerous, or have we learned and utilized safety measure to mitigate the negative effects? The same concept applies to smartphone, learn and implement the safety measures so you can mitigate any negative effects, but it is no reason to stay stuck in the 20th century.
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amother
Camellia


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:22 am
wif wrote:
1. You are confusing debating with hurling personal insults.

2. Yes. People who are keeping technology out of their homes for the sake of the sanctity of their homes are being moser nefesh. Very much so.

3. Yes. It is entitled. As in, they are entitled to raise their children how they want to. Just like you are.


They aren't being moser nefesh, they're just taking the easy way out for chinuch. We are supposed to prepare our children for the real life, not wrap them in a bubble and create an artificial world for them.

And no one is entitled to hurt other people, and create divide amongst your own fellow brothers. Just like no one is entitled to raise children as racists and bigots, no one is entitled to raise their children in a way that encourages them to look down on others.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:29 am
My DD used to be friends with a girl whose mother is one of the most RW teachers in school. You know, the one who goes around making sure everyone's tznius button is closed, and skirts are long, etc....

I remember the girl came over, and they wanted to watch a frum video we had borrowed from a friend (A Light For Greytowers) so I called the mother to ask if it was okay. She thanked me for asking, and said no, they don't watch, period, even frum videos, and she so appreciates my checking with her. BTW the girl knew her mother didn't allow videos....I think she may have been shy to say so.

I'm beginning to have a newfound respect for this woman (not that I didn't respect her before....but now it's increased). She has her standards, her choice, she's entitled. But she didn't ban her kids from friends' houses even if it might be hard for them to state their parents' chinuch rules, and she was extremely respectful and appreciative of my respect for her choices.

You can have your standards. I think what bothers OP is a. it didn't have to be told to the child and b. it could have been communicated to her directly, and possibly something worked out.
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Lovable




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:33 am
keym wrote:
Under my screen name.
I have banned my kids from friends houses. I guess I've been "bentched" with some gems of friends parents. The parent who "doesn't hold" of allergies and refused to check labels before giving out snack. The parent who believed that 5 year olds can be supervised by a 7year old while the mother ran out to the grocery store. The family where the older teenage son creeped me out in his attentions to his preschool sister and my daughter.
I never told these families but I also never told my kids.

All those who think the mother is to be lauded for increasing kedusha or whatever. Here's the thing. Not parallel, but an example it's the difference between banning going to a family because their OTD teenager is acting inappropriately in public IN FRONT OF THE KIDS (drinking, drugs, girls, foul language, whatever) or banning a family because of the fact that they have an OTD child
The former, I can respect as a necessity and parents call despite being hurtful. The latter is just plain hurtful and unnecessary.

The same thing. I can 100% understand not wanting your kids being involved with phones and internet's, especially in circles where we sign to restrict our children's access. That would mean telling the parent no screens for the kids, and maybe the mother shouldn't be glued to the screen while hosting. (I wouldn't make that call, but I hear it) as opposed to what's happening now - banning a child just FOR OWNING THE PHONE.

OK. Let the tomatoes fly.
I was brave and posted under my screen name so be gentle.

Agreed. Besides for one problem I have. How would you, or any parent know, if this mom is not using her phone while the neighbors are there? Im not sure I would trust if I had such standards.
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amother
Camellia


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:34 am
amother [ Yarrow ] wrote:
No I am comparing the posters making leitzanus and suggesting these women belong on mars to those who mocked our grandmothers. Whether it floats your boat or not don’t mock people trying to keep their families pure.


It's precisely this mindset that people are trying to raise attention to. This mindset is holier than thou, and putting down others. And so many of us don't consider this keeping your family pure. Having a smartphone doesn't make your family more or less pure, just like having a car doesn't make your family more or less pure, or just like having books in your house don't make your family more or less pure.

All of these items have potential to cause harm. Part of our jobs in keeping our homes pure is teaching our kids the right way to use them, and implement safeguards to do our hishtadlus to try our best. The people who do this are equally trying to keep their house pure. Having an essential tool in your house doesn't define its purity status. It's the action, your chinuch, and how you utilize them that defines it.

The act of having books in your home doesn't define anything. It is what books you bring into your home that can affect the atmosphere. Similarly, owning a car doesn't define anything. It's where you drive the car that can affect the atmosphere. And the same with technology. Tech in the house doesn't define anything, it's how its being utilized that makes the difference.

In actuality, people who take the measures to utilize the tool properly can actually foster a better atmosphere in the home. Think about having zoom meetings with Bobby and making her happy to see her einiklach. Think about the shiur that tatty can learn with his chavrusa, even if he's not feeling well, or traveling somewhere. Think about the online shiurim that mommy can have access to, accompanying on her daily chores. Etc.

This attitude about banning smartphones is a perfect definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It is the easy way out, not the better way.
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Lovable




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:36 am
Chayalle wrote:
My DD used to be friends with a girl whose mother is one of the most RW teachers in school. You know, the one who goes around making sure everyone's tznius button is closed, and skirts are long, etc....

I remember the girl came over, and they wanted to watch a frum video we had borrowed from a friend (A Light For Greytowers) so I called the mother to ask if it was okay. She thanked me for asking, and said no, they don't watch, period, even frum videos, and she so appreciates my checking with her. BTW the girl knew her mother didn't allow videos....I think she may have been shy to say so.

I'm beginning to have a newfound respect for this woman (not that I didn't respect her before....but now it's increased). She has her standards, her choice, she's entitled. But she didn't ban her kids from friends' houses even if it might be hard for them to state their parents' chinuch rules, and she was extremely respectful and appreciative of my respect for her choices.

You can have your standards. I think what bothers OP is a. it didn't have to be told to the child and b. it could have been communicated to her directly, and possibly something worked out.

I understand. But you know, I guess your neighbor was able to be trusted. That he kids dont sit and watch all day long. Its not like if they walk into your home, automatically they will be watching something. Its like an activity that MIGHT take place, and im sure she greatly appreciated your call of asking permission.
I doubt someone with a smartphone would call up the neighbor before using it in front of her child.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:39 am
Lovable wrote:
Agreed. Besides for one problem I have. How would you, or any parent know, if this mom is not using her phone while the neighbors are there? Im not sure I would trust if I had such standards.


If this was a standard I had, I would call the mother and say "chani is so excited to come play at Leah's house. Just one thing. We have a family thing not to use smartphones or computers around the kids. Would that work for you, or would it be better if Leah comes to our house?"
And then, you have no choice but to trust unless your kid says something that makes you suspicious.
Similar to how I'll tell a friend's mother "we only eat chalav Yisroel, please respect that" and then I have to trust that the parent respected that. And if my kid came home talking about Dannon Yogurts, Hagen Daaz, or Hershey bars for snack, then I know we can't trust that family.
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Lovable




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:41 am
amother [ Camellia ] wrote:
It's precisely this mindset that people are trying to raise attention to. This mindset is holier than thou, and putting down others. And so many of us don't consider this keeping your family pure. Having a smartphone doesn't make your family more or less pure, just like having a car doesn't make your family more or less pure, or just like having books in your house don't make your family more or less pure.

All of these items have potential to cause harm. Part of our jobs in keeping our homes pure is teaching our kids the right way to use them, and implement safeguards to do our hishtadlus to try our best. The people who do this are equally trying to keep their house pure. Having an essential tool in your house doesn't define its purity status. It's the action, your chinuch, and how you utilize them that defines it.

The act of having books in your home doesn't define anything. It is what books you bring into your home that can affect the atmosphere. Similarly, owning a car doesn't define anything. It's where you drive the car that can affect the atmosphere. And the same with technology. Tech in the house doesn't define anything, it's how its being utilized that makes the difference.

In actuality, people who take the measures to utilize the tool properly can actually foster a better atmosphere in the home. Think about having zoom meetings with Bobby and making her happy to see her einiklach. Think about the shiur that tatty can learn with his chavrusa, even if he's not feeling well, or traveling somewhere. Think about the online shiurim that mommy can have access to, accompanying on her daily chores. Etc.

This attitude about banning smartphones is a perfect definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It is the easy way out, not the better way.

According to YOUR family's standards, your post might be 100% true. But it is obviously not the case with a family of different standards. And if you cant respect that then just keep quiet. Dont dub them 'holier than thou'. There is nothing wrong with having, setting and enforcing ones standards.
In familys where smartphones are not acceptable, they might have beautiful erev Shabbos PHONE calls with bobby (old fashioned, but remember those?). And dont think that their bobby is less happy then yours
Lets not be silly
Every single one of us have standards that we are not ready to lower
For one it might be smartphone use
for another kashrus
for a third, middos
Lets respect each other
Maybe Op's neighbor should have done it in a nicer way, and I truly feel for OP who's feelings were hurt.
But thats got nothing to do with the fact that the neighbor is trying to raise her kids with standards she is not ready to lower.
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Lovable




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:43 am
keym wrote:
If this was a standard I had, I would call the mother and say "chani is so excited to come play at Leah's house. Just one thing. We have a family thing not to use smartphones or computers around the kids. Would that work for you, or would it be better if Leah comes to our house?"
And then, you have no choice but to trust unless your kid says something that makes you suspicious.
Similar to how I'll tell a friend's mother "we only eat chalav Yisroel, please respect that" and then I have to trust that the parent respected that. And if my kid came home talking about Dannon Yogurts, Hagen Daaz, or Hershey bars for snack, then I know we can't trust that family.

Agreed. Ok, so we are on the same page. Neighbor went about it the wrong way, OP was hurt
But seems like other posters on this thread think that the neighbor is nuts for trying to protect her family standards
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amother
Camellia


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:45 am
Lovable wrote:
I understand. But you know, I guess your neighbor was able to be trusted. That he kids dont sit and watch all day long. Its not like if they walk into your home, automatically they will be watching something. Its like an activity that MIGHT take place, and im sure she greatly appreciated your call of asking permission.
I doubt someone with a smartphone would call up the neighbor before using it in front of her child.


You don't have to walk around with the automatic assumption that everyone is doing the wrong thing. If you want things a certain way, just call up the parents and discuss your preference. Tell the parents that you don't want your kids to be exposed to any screen-time during their play date, and you'll be very shocked to see how many mothers totally agree with you, or will have no issues accommodating you.

If a parents doesn't respond to your liking, you have your answer right there and then - and you did it without negativity. You didn't assume anything about them, you didn't silently judge them or label them, and you didn't place the onus on them. You just were proactive and called up to let them know your preferences and expectations. Isn't this way so much better than automatically banning other people's home based on preconceived notions?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:46 am
Lovable wrote:
I understand. But you know, I guess your neighbor was able to be trusted. That he kids dont sit and watch all day long. Its not like if they walk into your home, automatically they will be watching something. Its like an activity that MIGHT take place, and im sure she greatly appreciated your call of asking permission.
I doubt someone with a smartphone would call up the neighbor before using it in front of her child.


I have a smartphone (a recent acquisition). I use it the same way I use a regular phone - for making phone calls. I also use it for texting. I don't have whatsapp or social media or internet on it.

Should I not use it in front of kids whose parents don't want smartphone use around them? Is it the phone per se, or the activity?

(Just asking for curiosity sake. I don't have anyone who has asked me not to use it in front of their kids. Though I don't use it in front of my 11-month-old niece. She "confiscates" all phones used in her presence, the little Rebbitzen. She then promptly puts it into her mouth. She loves phones.)
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amother
Camellia


 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:48 am
Lovable wrote:
Agreed. Ok, so we are on the same page. Neighbor went about it the wrong way, OP was hurt
But seems like other posters on this thread think that the neighbor is nuts for trying to protect her family standards


We're not saying she's nuts for trying to protect her family. We are pointing out two things here. One, that we are equally trying to protect our family, but we do it a different way. Two, that we feel that her way is not the better way, it will hurt her children (and others in the process) in the long run.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 22 2021, 6:48 am
We didn't prevent our kids from playing in the homes of non frum people. Where I live now, however, I can picture people being very selective about friends.
The non frum neighbors respected kashrus and Shabbos.
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