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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:17 pm
amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:
Yep. No library. And no "non Jewish" books in the house..even kids books. Like I said, they are very (very) into doing "what everyone else does" so... What


It's probably the everyone in their very small circle. Not the everyone in Lakewood.
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amother
Tuberose


 

Post Wed, Jun 23 2021, 11:01 pm
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amother
Calendula


 

Post Wed, Jun 23 2021, 11:12 pm
I grew up out of town. I went to a Frum out of town school. I was the only girl in my class who’s mother wore pants, and didn’t cover her hair. I was the only girl in the class who’s parents were divorced. I went to a fairly large, frum out of town school. Were there parents that davened in different shuls, in the parent body of my class? Yes. We’re some fathers professionals, and some fathers Rebbeim? Yes. Did my school ever discriminate against me, because of my parents. Absolutely not! But I still felt very different. I was very different. In my out of town school, I had people asking me why my mother wears pants. It wasn’t considered normal. My mother was respectful, and wore skirts to school functions, sometimes she even put a hat on. We were still not the norm in our out of town school. I grew up out of town, and did not feel that cozy, everybody is accepted no matter what background, feel. I did grow up with a lot of diversity , but that had to do with my family, not my school. What I’m trying to say is even my out of town school, and out of community, was a certain “type”. I think in many communities, and in many schools, and many shuls, similar people with similar hashkafos are attracted to a place that best serves their physical and religious needs.
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amother
Tanzanite


 

Post Wed, Jun 23 2021, 11:21 pm
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
I'm from LA.

Very diverse.
Chassidish
Lubavitch
Yeshivish
modern yeshivish
Jpf
MO
Persian
Israeli
BT
...

Each have a real community, yet there's overlap in schools, neighborhoods, etc.


What’s a “BT” community? bts can be any ethnicity and can become any hashkafa. I hope there isn’t a separate Bt community and that a Persian bt is free to be in that community and a MO bt in that and a lubavitch... etc.

I have seen this listed before. BT is not a hashkafa.
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captain




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 12:16 am
Can it be that some of us might be in a bubble by not accepting that others may have different values/desires and choose to live a more sheltered lifestyle?? Colors

For those who choose to live in a more sheltered town, community, neighborhood etc. and are worried about their children…just remember that parents can educate their children and teach them about diversity and respect while sheltering them. It’s not a contradiction. Just a different route to get there. Bringing ideas into the bubble or taking the kids out from time to time to see part of the world out there…

As previous imas posted, there is so much diversity in the Lakewood area in the recent years (although definitely a big proportion yeshivish since they were the pioneers.) Just as in NY area people mostly stick to their own community, the same is true for Lakewood. It’s an in-town mentality. Naturally, not as warm and cozy as a welcoming out-of-town place. For each advantage that we see, we somehow manage to find a long list of cons and challenges!! Speechless
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 9:44 am
amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:
Yep. No library. And no "non Jewish" books in the house..even kids books. Like I said, they are very (very) into doing "what everyone else does" so... What


When my kids were young, I didn't take them to the library, but I did bring non-Jewish books into the house, ones I approved of (think Little House books, Pippi Longstocking, Beverly Cleary....books I grew up with). As they got older, they monitor their own reading and have library cards, and yeah, they read many popular book series.

I know alot of people like this in Lakewood. Our Hashkafa is to be choosy about what we read. yes this keeps exposure to the diversity that exists in the world at a minimum, but it's a choice we make because of what's out there in the world, that we prefer not to occupy our minds with.

I used to live in Yeshiva area, and I know only a few families who don't bring non-Jewish books into the house at all. I know much more people who are similar to my family, and read non-Jewish books selectively.
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amother
Feverfew


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 10:25 am
I live in the five towns and am definitely on the right wing end. We are a klai kodesh family. I love it here. So many types of people all living together and interacting with one another. My son is in Darcahi and there is a huge range of kids in his class which I believe teaches the children to respect all kinds of people.

We were just in Lakewood and my son who is 8 was wearing shorts. All of his cousins were wearing long pants. My cousin made a comment to me how it was so refreshing to see a little boy in shorts her kids won't wear shorts after age 5 - no rules just no one does.

He slept at a different family of cousins and my sister in law was so impressed because after his shower he showed up in pjs which were shorts and a tshirt and my nephew asked him, is that a bathing suit? and he said no its pjs. My sister in law was so impressed with my sons confidence that he was not embarrased to be dressed differently than the other kids.

My personal observation is that in Lakewood everyone tries very hard to fit into the box that they belong to. Yes there are a few different boxes but people really stick to their boxes and follow the many unwritten laws of each box.

I know the five towns has a bad reputation here but I couldn't be happier and find the social pressures much less here than in lakewood.
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amother
Tuberose


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 10:36 am
amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:
I live in the five towns and am definitely on the right wing end. We are a klai kodesh family. I love it here. So many types of people all living together and interacting with one another. My son is in Darcahi and there is a huge range of kids in his class which I believe teaches the children to respect all kinds of people.

We were just in Lakewood and my son who is 8 was wearing shorts. All of his cousins were wearing long pants. My cousin made a comment to me how it was so refreshing to see a little boy in shorts her kids won't wear shorts after age 5 - no rules just no one does.

He slept at a different family of cousins and my sister in law was so impressed because after his shower he showed up in pjs which were shorts and a tshirt and my nephew asked him, is that a bathing suit? and he said no its pjs. My sister in law was so impressed with my sons confidence that he was not embarrased to be dressed differently than the other kids.

My personal observation is that in Lakewood everyone tries very hard to fit into the box that they belong to. Yes there are a few different boxes but people really stick to their boxes and follow the many unwritten laws of each box.

I know the five towns has a bad reputation here but I couldn't be happier and find the social pressures much less here than in lakewood.


Ruach chaim which is an Lakewood yeshivish boys camp the boys wear shorts as pajamas. And most boys bring. My boys definitely felt it’s a requirement to bring.

But it’s considered a tzinius thing for men not to wear shorts in the street.
Until 2nd grade many boys schools allow shorts and the boys wear. So 5 is very young and unusual.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 10:46 am
amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:
I live in the five towns and am definitely on the right wing end. We are a klai kodesh family. I love it here. So many types of people all living together and interacting with one another. My son is in Darcahi and there is a huge range of kids in his class which I believe teaches the children to respect all kinds of people.

We were just in Lakewood and my son who is 8 was wearing shorts. All of his cousins were wearing long pants. My cousin made a comment to me how it was so refreshing to see a little boy in shorts her kids won't wear shorts after age 5 - no rules just no one does.

He slept at a different family of cousins and my sister in law was so impressed because after his shower he showed up in pjs which were shorts and a tshirt and my nephew asked him, is that a bathing suit? and he said no its pjs. My sister in law was so impressed with my sons confidence that he was not embarrased to be dressed differently than the other kids.

My personal observation is that in Lakewood everyone tries very hard to fit into the box that they belong to. Yes there are a few different boxes but people really stick to their boxes and follow the many unwritten laws of each box.

I know the five towns has a bad reputation here but I couldn't be happier and find the social pressures much less here than in lakewood.


I've never heard of boys not wearing shorts pajamas. Mine do. My nephews do.

My 6 year old is in school right now with shorts as is everyone in his class. Boys wear shorts until 3rd grade here and then only in camp or pajamas. Many don't wear in the summer because they only have off of school for about 5 weeks. People don't want to buy 2 wardrobes.

On this thread people are commenting about a family they know and assuming everyone is like them.

I don't think lakewood is anything but it's definitely not one group of people all doing the same thing.
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amother
Feverfew


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 10:55 am
small bean wrote:
I've never heard of boys not wearing shorts pajamas. Mine do. My nephews do.

My 6 year old is in school right now with shorts as is everyone in his class. Boys wear shorts until 3rd grade here and then only in camp or pajamas. Many don't wear in the summer because they only have off of school for about 5 weeks. People don't want to buy 2 wardrobes.

On this thread people are commenting about a family they know and assuming everyone is like them.

I don't think lakewood is anything but it's definitely not one group of people all doing the same thing.


I have tons of family in Lakewood, yeshivish, chassidish, cool working etc. I find that everyone really sticks to their own type of people and each type does have a lot of unwritten rules.
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amother
Tuberose


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:05 am
small bean wrote:
I've never heard of boys not wearing shorts pajamas. Mine do. My nephews do.

My 6 year old is in school right now with shorts as is everyone in his class. Boys wear shorts until 3rd grade here and then only in camp or pajamas. Many don't wear in the summer because they only have off of school for about 5 weeks. People don't want to buy 2 wardrobes.

On this thread people are commenting about a family they know and assuming everyone is like them.

I don't think lakewood is anything but it's definitely not one group of people all doing the same thing.


This thread is a lot of - I know a family in lkwd and all 40,000 families in lakewood must be exactly like this.
which is actually kind of ironic.
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amother
Molasses


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:11 am
amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:
I live in the five towns and am definitely on the right wing end. We are a klai kodesh family. I love it here. So many types of people all living together and interacting with one another. My son is in Darcahi and there is a huge range of kids in his class which I believe teaches the children to respect all kinds of people.

We were just in Lakewood and my son who is 8 was wearing shorts. All of his cousins were wearing long pants. My cousin made a comment to me how it was so refreshing to see a little boy in shorts her kids won't wear shorts after age 5 - no rules just no one does.

He slept at a different family of cousins and my sister in law was so impressed because after his shower he showed up in pjs which were shorts and a tshirt and my nephew asked him, is that a bathing suit? and he said no its pjs. My sister in law was so impressed with my sons confidence that he was not embarrased to be dressed differently than the other kids.

My personal observation is that in Lakewood everyone tries very hard to fit into the box that they belong to. Yes there are a few different boxes but people really stick to their boxes and follow the many unwritten laws of each box.

I know the five towns has a bad reputation here but I couldn't be happier and find the social pressures much less here than in lakewood.

I grew up in the five towns/FR and brought up kids in Lakewood and there’s no question that growing up there was a lot more of people (and kids) doing their own thing but a ton of kids had trouble defining themselves and many of my classmates and neighbors ended up in situations that their parents were unhappy with. There plenty of that in Lakewood as well but nowhere near the scale and prevelance of what I saw growing up.

Some may consider it a plus for kids to chart their own path no matter where it leads them but to me it’s part of what tempers my natural tendency to bristle at Lakewood’s more conformist attitude.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:11 am
amother [ Tuberose ] wrote:
Ruach chaim which is an Lakewood yeshivish boys camp the boys wear shorts as pajamas. And most boys bring. My boys definitely felt it’s a requirement to bring.

But it’s considered a tzinius thing for men not to wear shorts in the street.
Until 2nd grade many boys schools allow shorts and the boys wear. So 5 is very young and unusual.


Yeah my nephew will be 4 this summer, and I'm sure he's gonna be in shorts for quite a while yet, he isn't wearing long pants next year.

I don't have boys, but I definitely see shorts on kids in the neighborhood, for sure till like 7 or so at least.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:16 am
amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:
I have tons of family in Lakewood, yeshivish, chassidish, cool working etc. I find that everyone really sticks to their own type of people and each type does have a lot of unwritten rules.


I used to live in a development that had yeshivish (different types of yeshivish), chassidish, cool working, not-so-cool working...and interestingly, everyone got along (more or less). My Chassidish neighbor was (is, but she moved) one of my favorite people to shmooze with. We were represented by almost every school then existing in Lakewood. Our kids grew up together, played together, etc....

So I 'm not sure why but the people you know are different than that. Not my experience here though.

I'm thinking of my first apartment as a newlywed in Lakewood....with one neighbor from Europe....one Chassidish from Brooklyn....one Prospect graduate....a Monsey family, she was more RW....myself....and we were all friends.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:16 am
amother [ Feverfew ] wrote:
I have tons of family in Lakewood, yeshivish, chassidish, cool working etc. I find that everyone really sticks to their own type of people and each type does have a lot of unwritten rules.


I don't know about rules. But being part of a group requires some conformity, nothing to do with lakewood or religion. So if you associate with a group, you are conforming to a certain level. Most people are parts of lots groups. Social, spiritual, economic, role, gender, career, married, child, etc
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:19 am
Chayalle wrote:
Yeah my nephew will be 4 this summer, and I'm sure he's gonna be in shorts for quite a while yet, he isn't wearing long pants next year.

I don't have boys, but I definitely see shorts on kids in the neighborhood, for sure till like 7 or so at least.

Or he can be like my 4 year old who absolutely 100% refuses to wear shorts, despite the stack of shorts in his closet, because big brother in Mesivta only wears long pants and he needs to be just like Big Brother. He also refuses to wear anything other than white collared shirts on Shabbos. I put my foot down on white button down shirts during the week because of laundry.
But long pants? Not worth the battle.
But people seeing us in Walmart might assume it's a shitta or a frumkeit or something. It's not. It's no different than a daughter wearing a tutu or a toddler wearing his rainboots on a sunny day like today.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:23 am
Some of the post here are really surprising to me. Not only do my sons wear shorts for pjs, so do my dds! No, you wont find that in the most yeshivish families, but there are plenty of families like ours.

Whenever I go to the library it's full of frum people. I almost never go on Friday afternoons because it's a popular Friday afternoon family trip and the place is packed with frum kids and adults.

So yes, there are people like your family and their friends. But they're not the majority. They're not "everyone".

I don't think Lakewood is very diverse, but we're definitely not all the same.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:23 am
keym wrote:
Or he can be like my 4 year old who absolutely 100% refuses to wear shorts, despite the stack of shorts in his closet, because big brother in Mesivta only wears long pants and he needs to be just like Big Brother. He also refuses to wear anything other than white collared shirts on Shabbos. I put my foot down on white button down shirts during the week because of laundry.
But long pants? Not worth the battle.
But people seeing us in Walmart might assume it's a shitta or a frumkeit or something. It's not. It's no different than a daughter wearing a tutu or a toddler wearing his rainboots on a sunny day like today.


LOL. Reminds me of when I used to run a daycamp as a teen, and one little 4 year old boy told me that black is his favorite color. He wanted the black crayon first during coloring time. Lest you think the poor child came from a dysfunctional home or had morbid thoughts in his head, he did not. He gleefully colored a "Totty" page.....

My sister gets my nephew's cooperation more easily during bedtime routine on the nights that his fireman pj's are out of the laundry.....
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:25 am
What a thread.
If you are open-minded and want to raise open-minded children, you will find a way to do so no matter which community you live in. Friends, schools, neighborhoods are all influential but as a parent you are the biggest influence.
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amother
Bluebell


 

Post Thu, Jun 24 2021, 11:40 am
Some 15 years ago, I taught at an MO girls' high school in the NY area. One of the staff members had a family connection to Satmar, so the girls were able to go for a shabbaton in Williamsburg.

Here's what they learned from the experience. Although the MO girls knew about chassidishe communities, the reverse was not true. Their counterparts simply didn't know that a community like theirs existed. They assumed that the girls were not frum and knew nothing about halacha. ("Now we're going to wash our hands before we eat challah. That's the fancy bread we have on shabbos.") And when the MO girls wanted to talk about the parsha, their hosts looked at them like they were speaking Greek.

The girls were grateful for the hospitality and for the exposure.

The funniest part was that on Monday morning, they all came to school with bathrobes over their clothing. They explained to the principal that in Williamsburg, it's totally acceptable to wear pajamas in public.

Obviously, Lakewood isn't Satmar Williamsburg. But it was an interesting exchange. And it goes without saying that the Satmar girls were not going to visit an MO community. But I wonder if they learned that Jews who aren't like them can be genuinely frum.
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