Ben Puti | Imamother

b.chadash

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 6:36 pm

It's interesting that after Pinchas killed Zimri, the consensus amongst the people was that he did the wrong thing. Rashi says that the shevatim were mocking him for having killed Zimri, saying he got these bad genes from his maternal grandfather who was an idol-worshipper. They called him Ben Puti.

People thought he was wrong. Even though he managed, with his action, to stop the plague, and the medrash says, to even bring those who had died in the plague back to life.
It's interesting to me that we live in a topsy-turvy world, so much so that what is right looks wrong and what looks right is wrong. We are so confused.

How could the people have thought Pinchas was wrong? Did they think Zimri was right to do what he did? He brazenly consorted with a Midyanite girl in front of everyone, just to spite Moshe.

Yet they somehow came to the conclusion that Pinchas was just a murderer. and he was worthy of scorn.

It makes me think about how much we haven't changed. We mock those who are doing the right thing, while being tolerant of those who openly go against the gedolim.

sweet3

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 7:20 pm

Honestly, if someone were to stab an adulterer to death Most of us would also disapprove...
It wasn’t even adultery, just a non Jewish women who may have been single. And Zimri didn’t deserve death according to halacha.
The chidush is that hashem approved of it, because of the unique circumstances.

BrisketBoss

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 7:23 pm

sweet3 wrote:

My understanding is the crime had nothing to do with who Cosbi was, rather the fact that the intimate act was performed in public. Not very 'mah tovu ohalecha.'

b.chadash

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 8:22 pm

sweet3 wrote:

Zimri may not have deserved the death penalty in a court of law but under the rule of "Haboel Aramis", a zealot is allowed to kill him. This was a clear cut law that Moshe had taught.

My point was that even after it was clear that Hashem approved of his actions, the people still scorned him. They wanted to kill him.

What seems to us at times as wrong, can be the right thing in Hashem's eyes.

I heard today from Rabbi Ashear that when we do a mitzva, of course we receive reward, but since we also receive some recognition or praise, some of the reward is minimized.However, in the case of Pinchas, Hashem gave him the complete reward because he received no reward at all in this world. Everyone was against him.

b.chadash

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 10:53 pm

naomi2 wrote:

Zimri was a Nasi! He was a chief rabbi and leader in klal yisroel so yes it was a very bad thing to do.

At first I thought you were saying that Pinchas did a very bad thing by killing a Nasi.
But now I assume you are saying that what Zimri did was a very bad thing to do, especially being that he was a Nasi. Is that right?

naomi2

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 11:00 pm

b.chadash wrote:

Yes you were correct, I should have been clearer. Posters are mnimizing what he did by saying she may have been single etc but this is not some random am haaretz doing questionable things on the side with a non Jewish woman. Zimri was like a gadol hador and everyone was just kind of looking away at his brazen actions.

b.chadash

Tue, Jul 06 2021, 1:51 am

naomi2 wrote:

I'm not sure if they are minimizing it, but rather saying that legally, Pinchas would not have been allowed to kill him. It was a very specific halacha which allowed Pinchas to kill them. The halacha is that if a Jewish man has relations with a non-Jewish woman, in public, a zealot may kill them (but only during the act). It's a very rare circumstance.

What I marvel at is the phenomenon that we- people- could view a situation and think a terrible thing was done, when in fact it was a mitzva of the highest order. This is what happened with Pinchas. The rest of the people just totally got the wrong end of the stick.

We don't live with nevua today, and we dont have such clear responses from Hashem. Its interesting to think that this could happen regularly. We could judge a situation and be so wrong.