Can make make kiddush on coffee?

amother

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:03 pm

We hold that a woman needs to make Kiddush Shabbos morning even before davening if she wants to eat/drink.

Weekday mornings I usually say my shortened Shachris and then drink a coffee (just grounds, water and milk).

I don't need to eat until midday and I especially avoid sweets and cake.

So far, on Shabbos, I either skip my coffee, or have to do Kiddush on grape juice (too many carbs for the minimum size cup) and then some mezonos. Best case is a shot glass of sweet liquor (carbs) + mezonos.

I'm trying to find a source that I can say kiddush on coffee only. I'd like to avoid eating cake.....

Is there something like that available?

Anon as I've asked about this in real life....

amother

Black

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:05 pm

I learned that you can do that. You should ask though, because not everyone thinks coffee is worthy of kiddush.

singleagain

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:06 pm

I thought kiddush was only if you wanted to eat mezonoat... And if it was shekol it was not needed

Also, I remember my dad saying that a man can drink coffee even before shacharit on a weekday of he needs it for functioning

tigerwife

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:07 pm

I do, but like the above poster said, ask a Rav if you hold it is “choshuv” enough. It may have something to do with the coffee/milk ratio.

amother

Black

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:10 pm

Adding, if you drink coffee without mezonos many hold you can do that before shachris -
After shachris you’re required to make kiddush plus have seuda (or Mezonos) with kiddush. So if you want to only drink it may be better to do so before davening. But I repeat: ask!

zaq

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:11 pm

From https://oukosher.org/halacha-y.....nos/:

There is a halacha that Kiddush may only be recited at the place of one’s meal. This requirement is known as Kiddush b’makom se’udah (Pesachim 101a). If one does not eat a se’udah after Kiddush or recites Kiddush in a location other than where he eats the meal, he has not fulfilled the mitzvah of Kiddush and must make Kiddush again when and where he eats.

The Tur and Shulchan Aruch (OC 273:5) quote the Ge’onim who hold that one can fulfill the mitzvah of Kiddush without actually eating a full meal at the time and place that he makes Kiddush. Rather, a person can consume a mere ke’zayis of bread or even drink an additional revi’is of wine as his Kiddush-time “meal” to fulfill the requirement of Kiddush b’makom se’udah. The Magen Avraham (273:11) and Aruch Ha-Shulchan (273:8) explain that, according to the Ge’onim, one can eat Mezonos food (e.g. cookies, pastry, or cake), after Kiddush to satisfy the rule of Kiddush b’makom se’udah. This view has become widely accepted, and many poskim permit partaking of Mezonos foods after Kiddush but ideally advise against satisfying the mitzvah by merely drinking an additional revi’is of wine (see MB 273:25). Some halachic authorities, including the Chasam Sofer, as quoted by Rav Moshe Shternbuch, shlita (Teshuvos V’Hanhogos 5:80), have ruled that if one makes Kiddush and then eats Mezonos foods, he must make Kiddush again later at his actual se’udah. This was also the opinion of Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, zt”l.

BTW mezonot doesn't mean "sweets." It means foods made from chameshet haminim of grain: Oats, rye, spelt, barley and wheat. A kezayit of Cheerios or Wheaties or wheat crackers or pasta or barley pilaf will do just fine.

Elfrida

Mon, Jul 19 2021, 12:12 pm

Kiddush needs to.be attached to some form of seuda. Mezonot is the normal way to fulfill this. If there us a reason for not eating mezonot, one can also use a double shiur of wine or grape juice, which is also considered significant enough to represent a seuda. I don't think coffee on its own can do this.

You can use crackers or even pasta for mezonot. It doesn't have to be cake.