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amother
Seashell


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:45 am
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Ok so I stopped posting once OP said that she doesn't want sources and that she wants to base her conclusions on her random observation. But I have to questions this post-

I had long conversations with my primary care doctor, obgyn (I am pregnant and my Dr is a maternal fetal specialist) and another specialist who I see for a a health condition, about whether I should take it or not.

What financial motives did they have? They did not receive a penny from the vaccine I took in Walgreens.

These are doctors whom I have long-term relationships with and who I trust with my life. They have helped me make many decisions in the past, and alot more significant than whether to take a vaccine or not. I honestly believe they have my best interests in mind and would not recommend something because of money.

I dont think your own doctor has financial motives, but he is led by the pharma industry to belive that it is safe and effective. Pharma stands to profit and paints a picture targeted at your doctor that it is in you and your baby's best interest. Effectiveness is coming into question with the presence of the delta variant and long term safety is unknown. It is ultimately everyone's personal decision to make.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:53 am
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
The medical institution stands to make billions off this. And they are recommending it. Unfortunately many doctors are following along their recommendations, maybe out of fear, maybe because they are used to following them, and therefore recommending the vaccine as well.


I don't buy this. I just don't believe that my doctor would advise me to do something harmful to myself because of "fear." Who is he afraid of? Our conversations are private and no one even knows what we spoke about. Also, if they really believed it was harmful, and they are just recommending it out of fear, then they wouldn't have taken it themselves and allowed their family members to get it

Call me naive, but no I don't believe that doctors are evil people, and I really believe that the doctors who I have strong realtionships with would only recommend something for my benefit.

And I always find the "financial incentive" excuse interesting. Many of the people who are anti doctors, medicine, vaccines etc are very pro the alternative practitioners. As if they are not motivated by finances when they charge a fortune and only take cash, and most of what they do is baloney and useless. Or how about the vitamin manufacturers who promise you the world if you take their stuff. They also make millions.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:58 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
I dont think your own doctor has financial motives, but he is led by the pharma industry to belive that it is safe and effective. Pharma stands to profit and paints a picture targeted at your doctor that it is in you and your baby's best interest. Effectiveness is coming into question with the presence of the delta variant and long term safety is unknown. It is ultimately everyone's personal decision to make.


Any doctor I spoke with had lots of sources and scientific data to back up what they told me. Not one said "the CDC/ pharma said to recommend it." They were all very knowledgeable and up to date on the latest studies

Even if its not 100% effective against every single variant, I still believe it was worth it. Partial protection is better than nothing.

As far as the fear of long term effects, I'm not going to go into it here because it's been rehashed before. but its scientifically impossible.
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amother
Latte


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:03 am
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Any doctor I spoke with had lots of sources and scientific data to back up what they told me. Not one said "the CDC/ pharma said to recommend it." They were all very knowledgeable and up to date on the latest studies

Even if its not 100% effective against every single variant, I still believe it was worth it. Partial protection is better than nothing.

As far as the fear of long term effects, I'm not going to go into it here because it's been rehashed before. but its scientifically impossible.


How did your doctor explain the adverse reactions that thousands of people are getting from this vaccine?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:05 am
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Any doctor I spoke with had lots of sources and scientific data to back up what they told me. Not one said "the CDC/ pharma said to recommend it." They were all very knowledgeable and up to date on the latest studies

Even if its not 100% effective against every single variant, I still believe it was worth it. Partial protection is better than nothing.

As far as the fear of long term effects, I'm not going to go into it here because it's been rehashed before. but its scientifically impossible.


I agree that some immunity beats no immunity.
I also hope that some of the drugs that Israeli researchers are looking into are going to be effective. I personally am not against any reasonable off label use and think that it would have been preferable to let doctors prescribe HCQ and ivermectin because people would have less of an ax to grind.
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amother
Mayflower


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:06 am
southernbubby wrote:
There was a sleepover camp (not frum) in upstate NY that recently had an outbreak but only the local kids went home so the camp still operates as a quarantine facility for the other kids.
Israel has identified 8 drugs that can be used to fight Covid. They now believe that pinning the emphasis on vaccines alone is not working.

Ah....

Slowly....

We're waking up....

Good morning!
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:14 am
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
How did your doctor explain the adverse reactions that thousands of people are getting from this vaccine?


The vast majority of side effects are minor- arm pain, feeling a little sick etc. Serious reactions are very very rare. Certainly alot rarer that than the adverse effects and long terms issues thousands of people have after recovering from covid itself

Like I said in previous posts, I really only like to bring scientific sources and not anecdotal evidence. So you can disregard what I am saying if you want. But I don't know a single person who had any trouble from the vaccine. And I know quite a few who unfortunately are still really suffering after having had covid over a year ago
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amother
Lemonchiffon


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:24 am
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
The vast majority of side effects are minor- arm pain, feeling a little sick etc. Serious reactions are very very rare. Certainly alot rarer that than the adverse effects and long terms issues thousands of people have after recovering from covid itself

Like I said in previous posts, I really only like to bring scientific sources and not anecdotal evidence. So you can disregard what I am saying if you want. But I don't know a single person who had any trouble from the vaccine. And I know quite a few who unfortunately are still really suffering after having had covid over a year ago


Side effects are minor?? My great aunt had a stroke right after she took the first part of the vaccine, and my mother got heart issues soon after. Just heard of someone who developed a very very rare form of cancer after taking the vaccine. The longer I wait to take it, the more sure I am that I am NOT taking this vaccine. If they won’t give it to children, I don’t need to risk it for myself.

I think of this vaccine as good for elderly ppl or those who may be prone to a bad case, but not for anyone in good health.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:40 am
[quote="amother [ Lemonchiffon ]"]Side effects are minor?? My great aunt had a stroke right after she took the first part of the vaccine, and my mother got heart issues soon after. Just heard of someone who developed a very very rare form of cancer after taking the vaccine. The longer I wait to take it, the more sure I am that I am NOT taking this vaccine. If they won’t give it to children, I don’t need to risk it for myself.

I think of this vaccine as good for elderly ppl or those who may be prone to a bad case, but not for anyone in good health.[/quote

These should all be reported and investigated. But it doesn't mean they were caused by the vaccine.

Cancer, for example, is generally a slow-developing diease. You don't just suddenly get cancer one day.
You didn't provide any details about what kind of heart issues your mom developed, but there are many heart problems that are years in the making. Did your mom have her heart checked regularly to know that everything was perfectly fine before? Again, I'm not saying the vaccine for sure did not cause it, but there's a lot to look into before assuming it did cause it
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:44 am
amother [ Lemonchiffon ] wrote:
Side effects are minor?? My great aunt had a stroke right after she took the first part of the vaccine, and my mother got heart issues soon after. Just heard of someone who developed a very very rare form of cancer after taking the vaccine. The longer I wait to take it, the more sure I am that I am NOT taking this vaccine. If they won’t give it to children, I don’t need to risk it for myself.

I think of this vaccine as good for elderly ppl or those who may be prone to a bad case, but not for anyone in good health
.

It's actually much more risky for older people. And less effective.
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amother
Peachpuff


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:48 am
amother [ Mayflower ] wrote:
Ah....

Slowly....

We're waking up....

Good morning!


No, vaccines alone are not going to end the pandemic, especially if significant percentages of the population continue to refuse to take them. There is no "waking up" to do. No vaccine in history has ever been 100% effective; it is not reasonable to expect that. If that is your criterion, then of course you will find the covid vaccines wanting.

In the near term, we need a combination of as many people as possible getting some protection via the vaccines (even now with the delta variant predominating, 91% effective at preventing serious cases of covid) AND, likely, even though no one wants to deal with this, everyone masking indoors for some indefinite period of time, at least in areas with upticks/outbreaks. People may say "well, if I still have to wear a mask, what is the point of getting the vaccine?" The point of the vaccine is to improve your chances of remaining healthy/recovering if you come into contact with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. It's not a guarantee--nothing in life is really guaranteed--but it is a powerful tool.

Vaccines and masks are the two proven, effective tools that we have to help keep people healthy. Many studies have been done on masks and the covid vaccines are the most scrutinized, well-monitored vaccines we've ever had. Scientists know they help. Why would you not want to give your immune system the most tools to fight this virus?

The combination of vaccines and indoor masks in outbreak areas at least should enable more people to remain healthy while the pharmaceutical researchers continue to investigate whether any existing medications are effective treatments for Covid-19 (there's been some promising news on that front recently in Israel under lab conditions) and to continue to try to develop new effective treatments. If there was an existing effective treatment, every hospital in the world would be scrambling to get their hands on it. And every manufacturer would be happy to increase production. And every government would be supportive because it would bring about a return to normal life, economic recovery, and most importantly, it would stop people from becoming seriously ill and worse. If you want to talk financial incentives, there is a powerful financial incentive to discover or create a medication that will work against Covid-19. This is a good thing--it helps drive innovation, like in every other area. Unfortunately, that effective treatment does not exist yet. No silver bullet yet. But Hashem has given us the vaccines, masks, and science to help us to withstand and survive the pandemic. BE"H, soon there will be an effective treatment discovered. Will we then say, well, we can't trust it because a pharmaceutical company made it and it's new and they will profit from it, etc.? Or will we look at the data that shows it helps x% of patients to recover more quickly or survive and say a bracha that we have such a tool? Like many of us did when we got the vaccine. One of my children was vaccinated this week, B"H, and I wholeheartedly said "amen" to "hatov v'hametiv."

If you have not gotten the vaccine, are you masking indoors like the public health recommendations say one should?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:49 am
amother [ Mayflower ] wrote:
Ah....

Slowly....

We're waking up....

Good morning!


I never had a problem with doctors using HCQ but I was afraid of it. I got vaccinated after having the virus but I do want safe options.
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oakandfig19




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:24 pm
Vaccines are 91% effective at preventing severe illness. Why is this even a debate?

The only reason we are still worrying about coronavirus is because half the population won’t get vaccinated. As long as it has people to circulate through, coronavirus can mutate.

The smallpox vaccine was mandated and it’s the reason we basically eradicated smallpox. It’s too bad that in this generation, the slightest mention of a mandate can send our country into tyranny about personal freedoms.
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amother
Latte


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:45 pm
oakandfig19 wrote:
Vaccines are 91% effective at preventing severe illness. Why is this even a debate?

The only reason we are still worrying about coronavirus is because half the population won’t get vaccinated. As long as it has people to circulate through, coronavirus can mutate.

The smallpox vaccine was mandated and it’s the reason we basically eradicated smallpox. It’s too bad that in this generation, the slightest mention of a mandate can send our country into tyranny about personal freedoms.


The numbers are showing the vaccine is not 91% effective at preventing severe illness.

Viruses mutate because of vaccines. They try to find another way into the host. It has nothing to do with the unvaccinated.

And it is wrong to mandate a vaccine that is still under clinical trials and wasn't properly studied. Over 10,000 deaths have been reported due to this vaccine in vaers. You don't mandate something that can cause harm.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 2:31 pm
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
The numbers are showing the vaccine is not 91% effective at preventing severe illness.

Viruses mutate because of vaccines. They try to find another way into the host. It has nothing to do with the unvaccinated.

And it is wrong to mandate a vaccine that is still under clinical trials and wasn't properly studied. Over 10,000 deaths have been reported due to this vaccine in vaers. You don't mandate something that can cause harm.


Viruses mutate as they travel from host to host and had already mutated when the vaccines were released to the public.
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amother
Latte


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 2:40 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Viruses mutate as they travel from host to host and had already mutated when the vaccines were released to the public.


And as they mutate they typically get weaker, not stronger.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 3:04 pm
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
And as they mutate they typically get weaker, not stronger.


I am not sure that they always weaken. The flu is different every year but not necessarily weaker than the year before.
My little grandson recently had hand, foot, mouth virus and apparently it mutates which can cause kids to get it more than once.
It's true that the Spanish flu weakened. Now we have a new infection called monkeypox which doesn't seem to mutate and is similar to smallpox but with a third of the death rate.
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amother
Peachpuff


 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 3:35 pm
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
The numbers are showing the vaccine is not 91% effective at preventing severe illness.

Viruses mutate because of vaccines. They try to find another way into the host. It has nothing to do with the unvaccinated.

And it is wrong to mandate a vaccine that is still under clinical trials and wasn't properly studied. Over 10,000 deaths have been reported due to this vaccine in vaers. You don't mandate something that can cause harm.


The numbers are showing exactly that the vaccine is 91% effective at preventing severe illness--in multiple countries (today, there reports about that from Israel and Great Britain). Those are the data. Down from virtually 100% efficacy against the original covid strain, but extraordinary effective nonetheless.

Viruses definitively do not cause mutations. There was a "paper" that got circulated a couple of weeks ago claiming that and it has been 100% disproven and was retracted by the journal that published it. It is simply not true. Further, all of the variants currently causing havoc, including the Delta variant, first arose PRIOR to any vaccine being authorized. The Delta variant is 10 times more contagious than the original strain. It could not even theoretically been "caused" by the vaccines. Viruses need hosts. Being vaccinated makes it harder (though not impossible) to catch the virus. Being unvaccinated makes it super easy to catch the virus & give it to someone else. The more hosts, the more opportunities for variants. If everyone vaccinates, we'll make it much harder for the virus to continue to circulate and change.

As has been discussed previously, doctors are required to report any death to VAERS that occurs within a certain time frame of vaccination, from any cause. Those reports are investigated & there have been almost no deaths attributable to the vaccines. Meanwhile, the world has thus far lost more than 4,000,000 precious souls to Covid-19; 610,000 of them in the United States. The actual numbers are thought to be much higher, perhaps 3,000,000 people in India alone--record keeping is not good everywhere, so we will likely not ever know how many lives Covid-19 has claimed.

The choice to vaccinate or not is not a choice to take some risk versus no risk. It's to take the extremely tiny risks associated with the vaccines versus the high risks posed by Covid-19. The math is not even close.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 3:41 pm
amother [ Latte ] wrote:
And as they mutate they typically get weaker, not stronger.

That's not what happened with the Spanish flu in 1919.
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flmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 23 2021, 3:50 pm
My cleaning ladies son just tested positive. He was not vaccinated and is in his 30’s. Mild BH
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