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Forum -> Vacation and Traveling
My family wants to go on vacation and I should be their cook
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 7:55 am
reread your post Op.
so want to add:
honestly I'd tell dh and the kids later that while you have always been happy to do so right now you are feeling depleted and won't be able to. and you are open to suggestions how best to make this work for everyone. rinse and repeat.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:08 am
LovesHashem wrote:
If DH has never cooked a meal before and you do everything in the house I'm not surprised your DH expects the same when you go away.

Do you work at all?


Sure, there can be a division of labor that carries over but there should be some flexibility, convenience foods, help, etc. even if the overall operations will be carried by the wife/mother. And built into it all some pampering and tangible appreciation at some point.

ETA: And regular abundant sincere thank yous.


Last edited by PinkFridge on Wed, Aug 04 2021, 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:09 am
OP, I am sending you hugs and support.

For all those who are telling her to change her view on what this trip is, and to bring cereal and yogurt and crockpot meals; you are all misreading her post and missing the crux of the issue. Firstly, her husband told her they have the right to expect a fresh, hot breakfast on their vacation, catered by her, as well as fresh, hot dinners also catered by her. Cereal, yogurt, and fruit will not suffice for him or for her kids and they are disturbed that she wants to relax a bit. That's issue one.

The real issue that people are missing here is not the vacation/family trip. This is not about OP not wanting to bring a pizza maker and whip up chicken teriyaki like the Busy in Brooklyn lady did on instagram (seriously people, talk about making unrealistic expectations for a vacation!).

The issue is the lack of respect OP is being shown by her husband who apparently told her in front of her children that he is disturbed by her attitude and now her children are upset with her also. What the other amothers here do when they go away with their family is moot here because this thread is not about OP not being willing to provide meals for her family - she is very willing! She is being wildly disrespected and emotionally punished by her husband and kids until they get their way.

OP, what is the general dynamic like at home? Does your husband put you down often? In front of the kids, egging them on to participate? Is this is frequent pattern in your family dynamic? Or is this just about you not wanting to be a caterer on vacation?


Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:11 am
amother [ Daylily ] wrote:
Because there are some marriages in which the woman does everything. Mine included. it's annoying and even more annoying on vacation, but that's life. Some men are just like that and you're kind of stuck with it.


Sure. There are men who are helpless. And extremely grateful to their wives and they show it. Now is this optimal? Maybe not. Can it lead to burnout if the wife never gets help? Sure. Such a woman who does everything needs to know she can rely on convenience food at times, and she should have cleaning help, etc.
Not every couple will have the same dynamic. But what they all have to share is good will.

ETA: I cross-posted with Watergirl. She's 100% right. I hope that OP gets constructive input beyond "spoiled brats." She has to live with them and love them.
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:34 am
amother [ Daylily ] wrote:
Because there are some marriages in which the woman does everything. Mine included. it's annoying and even more annoying on vacation, but that's life. Some men are just like that and you're kind of stuck with it.


No. You aren't stuck with it and you don't have to live like that.
I know many women who changed the dynamics of their marriages.
It wasn't even that difficult. You just use the word "no".
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:51 am
Rabbi Fishel Schachter wrote about a trip he took to EY. He offered to take $$ for someone (actually $$$$) and after going through security discovered it had disappeared. Ultimately he decided to go to EY anyway, he borrowed money to give to the family that needed it, and decided to just ACT HAPPY GRUMBLE GRUMBLE. Actually, minus the grumble grumble. He didn't perseverate and rehash, just went on and was happy and his family had a great time. He imagined what kind of a trip they would have had otherwise.

Oh, and the last day, he found the money tucked way deep into a luggage pocket.

I'm thinking of this story because I don't know if I could do this, but what I'm thinking is, for OP to do something similarly heroic. Yes, something has to change big time. But for now, go 75% of the way. Bring everything, but let the family know that 2 mornings you're off and they can make their own eggs/eat yogurt. And then be Pollyanna and give your family a trip you'll all remember.

And THEN when you come home, find a way to lovingly and compellingly read everyone the riot act. This will take a lot of chochmas nashim and maybe talking to someone IRL. But iyH things will be different and beautiful in 5782.
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amother
Daylily


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 8:54 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
I’ll let you in on a secret you absolutely do not have to put up with it. There are so many ways to change the dynamic


Such as? you can't turn someone into a kind, considerate person overnight. Especially the way our system is set up, in which bascially this is the women's work by default and if the guy so much as picks up a broom once a month he's 'helping out' (hooray!) and is expected to be called a hero.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 9:03 am
amother [ Daylily ] wrote:
Such as? you can't turn someone into a kind, considerate person overnight. Especially the way our system is set up, in which bascially this is the women's work by default and if the guy so much as picks up a broom once a month he's 'helping out' (hooray!) and is expected to be called a hero.


Yes. This is going to take time, and planning.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 9:55 am
op- I just want to say I feel with you- I also feel like cooking on vacation is a hassle I don't want. much easier to cook in my own well stocked kitchen where I can easily find what I need
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amother
Stone


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 10:11 am
amother [ Daylily ] wrote:
Such as? you can't turn someone into a kind, considerate person overnight. Especially the way our system is set up, in which bascially this is the women's work by default and if the guy so much as picks up a broom once a month he's 'helping out' (hooray!) and is expected to be called a hero.


She just stops cooking. So dh will be upset. Big deal. He's a big boy and can cook if he wants. One shouldn't need to become a schmatte to avoid a spouse's grumbling.

The only problem is if her kids are teens and have all been raised with the mentality that a mom must be a martyr or she's not worth anything. In that case, they may side with dh and it could lead to uncomfortable family dynamics. I still wouldn't cook, but if this is a pervasive problem, I would look at deeper solutions to make sure her refusal to be a schmatte doesn't alienate her from the kids.

Personally I left a community that had these kinds of values for this exact reason. I didn't want my kids looking down at me if I didn't dedicate all my spare time to scrubbing floors.

Obviously moving is usually not an option. But her teens need to be reprogrammed. They want hot food, they cook. Yes, even if they are boys.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 10:36 am
amother [ Stone ] wrote:


Obviously moving is usually not an option. But her teens need to be reprogrammed. They want hot food, they cook. Yes, even if they are boys.


Based on your experience, how would you guide OP to do this in a loving, upbeat way?
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amother
Stone


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 10:43 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Based on your experience, how would you guide OP to do this in a loving, upbeat way?


As I said, I changed communities when my kids were all under ten. I registered my kids in modern, more liberal schools and they grew up viewing many egalitarian type families around us. So I don't have direct experience in deprogramming kids who think mom must be the family martyr (AKA schmatte).

We don't even know if op is in that position. She hasn't come back. For all we know, her family lives in a very egalitarian community and it's only her dh and kids with these expectations.
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:08 am
Just dont cook one in every two dinners. Or one meal a day. , It wont be your best vacation, dont make a big deal about it but just stop. Say, I am tired. Sorry guys. I slept in. etc.
I am not sure how to start when u have teenagers.
I know that my bochurim all cook (they can make an entire shabbos if they want to)
My freinds sons cook.
I have another freind that her husband will cook but her sons wont, so it is definitely hard to change a childs expectations or dynamic.
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amother
Daphne


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:21 am
I agree with you, OP. When we are on vacation, in our situation it is camping, I refuse to cook. We bring sandwich ingredients, crackers, fruit, veggies, yogurts when we have access to a fridge. I'll bring things I can pre-cook and eat at room temperature like pasta.
DH will grill one dinner so we bring a disposable grill, burgers, hot dogs and condiments. No one goes hungry and I get a vacation too.
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amother
DarkMagenta


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:30 am
amother [ Daylily ] wrote:
Such as? you can't turn someone into a kind, considerate person overnight. Especially the way our system is set up, in which bascially this is the women's work by default and if the guy so much as picks up a broom once a month he's 'helping out' (hooray!) and is expected to be called a hero.


Which system????
This is not about a system. This is about personality and the individual marriage.
Everyone can stand up and say this is not working for me, this is not fair.
I don't know any system that calls a husband a hero because he picked up the broom. On the contrary, he would be called a jerk.
I am Chassidish and live in Monsey. My neighbors span the spectrum from ultra Chassidish to Modern Orthodox. I'm talking from all of their point of views. Yes some men might do more than others, but not one of them would be OK with what you describe.
If that's the dynamic in your home then I would tell you to start looking into options to change it. It's possible. Not so much for you, but for the sake of your children. So your daughters don't go on repeat. And your sons and their wives are not set up for resentment and disappointment.
Bli neder when I enter Shidduchim with my girls one of the first questions I'll ask is if the father shares responsibilities at home. I didn't raise my girls for years with all my heart to be a slave to some entitled spoiled man boy.
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:38 am
You do not have to move to a MO or egalitarian community in order to not being a slave. Step 1 stand up for yourself and stop enabling such behavior. Step 2 values start at home. I live in a right wing community and I see all the men being equal parents and members of the household. And let’s say a community thinks it’s normal for a man not to lift a finger, you still don’t have to tolerate it. You have a choice, your husband demands something say no and keep sitting. If he does something abusive because you refuse then you have a bigger issue. I keep seeing women saying but I have no choice that’s the way men are. You have a choice you can always refuse, and you can always counter with your own demands. And it’s not shalom bayis being miserable and silently being a slave.
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gamanit




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:48 am
If you don't mind heating up precooked food I believe I've already mentioned that I cook larger amounts before I go on vacation then freeze half or more and bring it along on vacation. We'll end up eating reheated pasta at least two or three times (because I'm just cooking more of whatever I cooked before) but that's it. Sometimes we'll have hot dogs for supper (we bring along frozen). Ice boxes keep things frozen for a long time and you can always go into walmart and buy a bag of ice if needed. You can repeat that you're not offering any fresh meals and if anyone else would like to they are more than welcome to do so.
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4g01o




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:52 am
Buy bbq meat/chicken ready flavoured, put in a cool bag to keep cold whilst travelling. Best to freeze it first. Then make bbq's 2 of the nights! Buy wraps. They're yum on the bbq.

Make 1 is 2 suppers in advance and freeze. A good one is shephards pie, fried schnitzels and take pasta and disposable pots.

For breakfast take cereal and milk.

For lunches, sandwiches. Cheese, choc spread, peanut butter, tuna...

The older kids or your husband can make the sandwiches on a couple of the days.
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amother
Bottlebrush


 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 3:34 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
I’ll let you in on a secret you absolutely do not have to put up with it. There are so many ways to change the dynamic


First, she needs some equanimity. Its hard to figure out how best to approach the situation for your dh if you are being goaded to feel resentment. Perhaps this is not the best forum for that.
OP, I support you. You can manage this well.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 05 2021, 6:58 am
watergirl wrote:
OP, I am sending you hugs and support.

For all those who are telling her to change her view on what this trip is, and to bring cereal and yogurt and crockpot meals; you are all misreading her post and missing the crux of the issue. Firstly, her husband told her they have the right to expect a fresh, hot breakfast on their vacation, catered by her, as well as fresh, hot dinners also catered by her. Cereal, yogurt, and fruit will not suffice for him or for her kids and they are disturbed that she wants to relax a bit. That's issue one.

The real issue that people are missing here is not the vacation/family trip. This is not about OP not wanting to bring a pizza maker and whip up chicken teriyaki like the Busy in Brooklyn lady did on instagram (seriously people, talk about making unrealistic expectations for a vacation!).

The issue is the lack of respect OP is being shown by her husband who apparently told her in front of her children that he is disturbed by her attitude and now her children are upset with her also. What the other amothers here do when they go away with their family is moot here because this thread is not about OP not being willing to provide meals for her family - she is very willing! She is being wildly disrespected and emotionally punished by her husband and kids until they get their way.

OP, what is the general dynamic like at home? Does your husband put you down often? In front of the kids, egging them on to participate? Is this is frequent pattern in your family dynamic? Or is this just about you not wanting to be a caterer on vacation?


This. It never fails to amaze me how so many people repeatedly miss the point. It leaves me scratching my head every time.
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