Help me discuss this with my son

amother

Thu, Sep 23 2021, 2:18 am

DS is 23 and is overall a good person. He davens and learns and is nice to people. He's in shidduchim and I know people hear good things about him.

He's not home often, but when he is, he can sometimes be....I don't know how to put it. I can't say disrespectful because he would never be chutzpahdik in any way, but he can be subtly degrading, especially toward me. I'll give some examples to make it clearer.

On Pesach, as I was washing the dishes, which are somewhat unusual (MIL chose them and she has unique taste), I told DH that I was in a friend's house the day before and I noticed she had the same dishes as us. DS23 said cynically, "Wow, exciting." I got annoyed and told him that his cynicism is not pleasant to people around him and does not come from a nice place.

Last night we got into a discussion about bowling. My kids bowl occasionally, not very well, but they do it for fun. I asked them if they knew what the highest possible score is, and after some discussion, they came up with the right answer. DS23 then said that it's not uncommon for good bowlers to score a full 300. I answered that my friend's son has scored 300. DS23 said with a smirk that since none of them know my friend or her son, that makes him a complete stranger to them so it adds nothing to the conversation.

A few minute later, my daughter asked if her friend could sleep over. We discussed it for a few minutes, and then my younger boys, who had only heard bits and pieces of the conversation, asked which friend it was. I said "DD's friend, Cohen's daughter" because they don't know her first name but do know her family. Then another kid came in and asked which friend was coming, and I said the same thing, "Cohen's daughter." DS23 laughed and said "Why do you have to say 'Cohen's daughter', you can just say 'Cohen'."

There are many more examples. He's not doing anything outright disrespectful but says things to make the other person feel foolish. After the second thing happened, I got very upset at him and told him off angrily for commenting on every little thing others say. He said, "I was just asking," so I said, "Don't just ask." I guess I went on for a bit (maybe 30 seconds in total) so he said something like "I said I accept it, I'm sorry, you don't have to keep saying it." He didn't seem particularly remorseful.

I feel like I need to follow up with him about this today. Firstly, I want to apologize to him for telling him off in front of everyone--it was more of an outburst (though it was relatively calm, not yelling) and not premeditated, but I also feel like I need to discuss this more with him. It's nice that he said he accepts it, but changing middos takes more than that. It can be very hard work and I want him to realize that and start working. As I said earlier, he's in shidduchim and it scares me that he might treat his wife this way c"v.

I will add that this seems to be directed mostly toward me. Overall, we have a good relationship with open communication, but this is not something new.

Any suggestions on how to approach this with him?

amother

Navy

Thu, Sep 23 2021, 2:47 am

Hey, DS, I've noticed that we get into a pretty negative pattern of talking, me and you. I'm wondering you've also noticed?

(huh, mom?)

It seems kind of out of character for you, but you seem to be annoyed sometimes at things I say and make a comment that is subtly degrading.

(huh?)

Like, I know sometimes things I am excited about are not so important to you, and that's okay. It just seems that we are in a pattern of verbally rolling your eyes at me instead of politely saying, "cool mom" and changing the subject.

I'm your mother and I can handle it, I just wanted to bring it up to you because it can be hurtful to people and I didn't want the pattern to extend to others.

imasinger

Thu, Sep 23 2021, 6:33 am

You might want to wait until it next happens, then take him aside. Amother Navy above me had some great ways of putting things, and if you can provide a specific, immediate example, it will help. Then, give one or two of the other examples you mentioned.

Other than not having taken him aside, I think your reaction to the "Cohen's daughter" comment was accurate. It wasn't so subtle; he criticized his mother for no reason, about something completely insignificant.

I'd suggest maybe staying away from calling the comments "subtly degrading", and instead call them "unsupportive and unproductive". It's also a bad example for younger siblings, who might cross the line into outright chutzpah. Tell him, to stick with the old maxim, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything". Encourage him to say something nice more frequently as well, so that if he does take a while to get rid of this habit, the unkind words will have been cushioned by kinder conversation.

It wouldn't be totally surprising if he's acting like this because he's nervous how his family will be perceived by a potential shidduch. Maybe it would help to ask him if he's aware of any concerns driving these comments, and clear the air a bit. He might benefit from speaking to a favorite rebbe/mashgiach or other mentor about that kind of feeling.

Most people have a defensive first (and second) reaction to this kind of conversation, so expect it and don't be upset by it. Just tell him you'll be quietly letting him know if you hear him do it in the future.

What would that sound like?

For the comments you listed above, maybe, "thanks for sharing, that was another example." Maybe ask, "on rethinking, do you have a different comment, or would that have been better to keep quiet?"