Halloween Party WWYD? UPDATE!

amother

Ebony

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:03 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Wow that’s insane. I mean no one is going to like or agree with every event.

I mean what if they do a BBQ and it’s not kosher or halal? What about people who are vegan? What about people who just don’t like meat?

What about people who just don’t like Halloween?
.

Nothing. You don't make a big deal out of it. If you do not attend, you stay low key about it, you don't complain or try to dictate what sort of parties they should be having.
(Usually places do try to accommodate food issue and will order kosher food for those employees.)

little neshamala

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:21 pm

amother [ Chestnut ] wrote:

Yes. A lot of these things function as team building activities and help employees bond. You don't need new best friends for outside work, but friends who have your back at work are important. It might help you find out important info, advance in your position, or just help to have someone to cover for you when you have to leave early for a Chag or something. I really would ask a rav before you throw it all out. In my non-Jewish workplace the Halloween stuff is not religious at all.

This

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 9:29 am

little neshamala wrote:

I hear you but I really dont think its such a definite no. It depends on what she stands to lose by not participating, and it likely also depends on exactly what is being celebrated. Pagan themed celebrating is not the same as playing a murder who dunnit game "for halloween"

I have a good friend who manages to get out of a lot. But it's a large corporation, maybe things are different. This just seems to be a no-brainer.

amother

Geranium

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 9:54 am

Yes Scotty it does.
Like much of history Christianity took pagan holidays and rituals and coopted them with a veneer of christianity.
Would not participate.
Would not make a big deal.
Would simply say previous conflict. Which is true Wink

And if a pattern emerges of you not participating in V day, H day and Xmas day stuff so be it. Best to start clear from the beginning.
Compensate in other ways which work for you.
Hatzlocha

(fyi even non orthodox jewish preschools don't allow participation in Halloween stuff either just as a frame of reference)

amother

Candycane

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 9:55 am

I agree that you shouldn't go, but I understand if you don't want to explicitly say it's for religious reasons. You can say that you really don't like horror themed stuff (a lot of people don't) and that should be fine.

As an aside, my mother's birthday happens to be October 31st. So when I've run into this issue in the past, I would say oh, I'm going out to dinner with my parents because it's my mom's birthday Very Happy

That's anyway true most years.

SixOfWands

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:02 am

thunderstorm wrote:

The company I work for was formerly owned by a frum person and I didn’t have this new issue. It has since been acquired by a public company and frum employees are the minority.
My team is having a Holloween Murder Mystery Party , via zoom . They requested that we RSVP . At first I didn’t answer. But then I saw there’s a form to fill out and one of the options was “I’m shy, but maybe I’ll join”. I selected that option as I was unsure what to do.
Now the person in charge messaged me asking if I think another frum person I work with is joining since he didn’t answer. I’m assuming he didn’t answer because he’s stuck like me not knowing how to go about this. Is there a Halacha issue with dressing up on Holloween? Is it a religious holiday? Is this something I’m not allowed to participate in because I’m frum? Anybody know? I was thinking of asking a shaila , but figured I’d hear first if anyone else was ever in this position, specifically for Holloween?

I'm going to be different and suggest that you CYLOR.

No, you should not be celebrating Halloween.

But is attending a zoom party entitled "Halloween party" that is at best tangentially related to Halloween crossing that line? Especially if its a team-building event?

After all, most of us would have no qualms about snagging a mini Reeses that someone put out in a plastic pumpkin, and none of us would blink twice at a pre-Xmas sale.

Maybe its not OK. Maybe it is. But IMNSHO, ask.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:15 am

Just saying, very religious Christians often do not celebrate Halloween as it is not considered a religious Christian holiday. It is also not a Jewish holiday, so I don't see why they would expect you to be part of their celebrations.

In reference to them asking you about whether a frum coworker will be attending, I have a funny story about that:
My husband was once at a public library and there were two African Americans sitting next to each other at a table. One appeared to be sleeping. The librarian asked the other, "Is he sleeping?" She responded, "you think just because I'm black, I know if he's sleeping?"
(The librarian made an assumption based on race that they were at the library together; they were not.)

singleagain

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:25 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Is he really so sure it was solely based on rice and not proximity. If I saw two people sitting together depending on how close I might assume that they were with each other also if they were on opposites sides of the table.. probably not but otherwise...

zaq

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 1:14 pm

amother [ Hyacinth ] wrote:

Halloween is a PAGAN holiday it's worse than x-mas because it's sourced from mamaesh avodah Zara

So is Xmas.
It's no coincidence that the major Christian holidays fall very close to the major pagan ones. The church fathers knew that people love their festivals and won't give them up, but they were eager to convert the masses (not the Masses, hahaha). So they "converted" pagan festivals by renaming them and giving them new interpretations.

singleagain

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 5:16 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I guess I am the odd one out? If it's a team building exercise and would be good for workplace enthusiasm, I would attend and wear a costume. You aren't doing anything pagan; you're participating in a work event.

I agreem I would go. Might not wear a full costume bc I don't usually. But I'd wear my star trek uniform shirt.

My Aunt Smilingmom A"H loved Halloween. And would to the parade with her friends. In costume... But as the eggs not the bacon.

BetsyTacy

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 5:44 pm

I would not go in costume--my costume would my usual weird costume of Orthodox dress.
I thought this was a zoom thing anyway.

A murder mystery over zoom sounds a lot better than a "holiday" party with alcohol and mixed dancing. Actually sounds fun and sounds like the Halloween part is just to give it a fun tie in to the month. Most work environments don't "expect" a Halloween party the way a December holiday party is expected.

I would zoom on to this and skip the December nightmare--unless a rabbi told me differently.

BrachaBatya

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 7:08 pm

Honestly, it's a zoom mystery party. I would go and have fun and be part of the team. It doesn't denigrate my identity as a Jew. It doesn't mean anything religious to me OBVIOUSLY. It's a mystery party. Throw on a baseball cap or a silly hat and just have fun. Save your "I can't go" for something important.

thunderstorm

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 12:57 pm

I have an update:
Today, my manager emailed us today that all those that responded with “maybe” need to give a definite answer .
So I was feeling really pressured. I called my rav to discuss it and to ask him what to do.
I actually got a heter to join, so it’s obviously not so black and white as some people believe.
This was a heter given only to me and based on my exact circumstances and what the party entails. I wanted to post here to let people know that when in doubt it is useful to call a rav to discuss it. I feel so much calmer now knowing that the way I’m going about it is with guidance from my rav. Also, he did make it clear that this is not something I should ever feel ok doing. It’s this particular circumstance that makes it ok. He understood the situation very well. So thank you for those that encouraged speaking to my rav. It really put my mind at ease.

hodeez

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 1:09 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

I wonder if you attending will make the other absent frum Jews look bad?

thunderstorm

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 1:21 pm

hodeez wrote:

I wonder if you attending will make the other absent frum Jews look bad?

I don’t think so. I discussed it with her. It’s actually in a different time zone than us and cuts into the time that we usually clock out , so she said she’s telling them she has an appointment with her daughter and doesn’t think she’ll be able to make it.

I realized afterward that I will only be available for the first session which is the actual murder mystery detective work. I will tell them that the costume party and drinks , which is the second part I’m unable to join because my kids will be coming home and it will be supper time. So I think it will all work out.