Young male supervisor either clueless or inappropriate

octopus

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 8:27 pm

amother [ Strawberry ] wrote:

I work in a heimishe workplace with litvish and chasidish men and woman. Our boss loves to sit and chat with us about anything from who got married last night to the prices of meat. I know hes an extemely ehrlich man and I never took it wrong. A few of my chasidish workmates sent in someone from the outside, a respectable man in the community to come and talk to him about it. It turned into a whole blow up story. My boss actually repeated it to me and asked me if hes offending anyone.
I find you can tell on someone when theyve got bad intentions in mind or thier just friendly extroverts. My boss is a real yiras shomayim. He does to stuff that some men wouldnt do but he does it even when his wife walks in.
Example this mornign he walked in and asked me how my cousins wedding was last night and he heard about the band etc. He gets personal but never dirty.

He also laughs at our jokes and has offered to buy me stuff when he went out. I know it sounds alittle off but working with him long enough made me realise his type. My workers turned it into a full blown cheating on his wife-affair-abusing story and it was so unfair. This man took over his retired father recently. His father was always extremely friendly but since he was in his high60s no one took it personal. Hes young in his low 40s and whoooho hes in love and hitting on all of us.....

Im not saying OP shouldnt say anything but look at the full picture before jumpign to conclusion

I'm sorry, but this type of overly friendly male makes females uncomfortable. Yes, they don't mean anything by it, but they have to learn how to scale back. I'm saying this as an extreme extroverted friendly female, and I scale it back when dealing with males. I'm not saying it's right to concoct a whole story about it, but it's not far-fetched that he really did make the females uncomfortable. I have certain male neighbors that I feel like, uch, just get away from me, and I know they don't mean anything by it.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 8:33 pm

amother [ Strawberry ] wrote:

Sorry, your boss is being inappropriate (in the frum world.) This isn't how a real yiras shamayim behaves with other women. I'd feel very uncomfortable working for such a boss. (The girls did not handle the situation correctly, but the boss is a bit to heimish with females and I can see why he would make girls uncomfortable.)

vintagebknyc

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 10:15 pm

amother [ Lightcyan ] wrote:

Right out of seminary I worked in a large firm. They employed fellow Jews from non religious to very Chassidish and everything in between.

The Chassidishe single young ladies were very careful with gender separation. They worked with the men as needed. They were very dedicated but would only work in an environment that did not get personal or cross certain limits that they made.

One day one woman came with new glasses. One of the MO men commented on the nice new glasses. It made the woman very uncomfortable. The men knew that when working with the Chassidishe woman there were certain boundaries they could not cross.

The woman was ready to quit. Being so dedicated the company did not want her or her friends to leave. They fired the man who had made the comment.

The CEO was not frum and the manager was mo and in their communities it may be normal to do that. But they respected their workers and wanted them to feel comfortable in their work environment.

ETA - The comment wasn't so much on the glasses but on how it looked on the woman. That is what made her so uncomfortable.

In America? I hope he had a really good lawyer and sued them for religious discrimination.

amother

Gold

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 10:25 pm

I understand you completely OP. You should def say something. I was in a similar situation where one male coworker was acting in a way that made the females uncomfortable (yeshivish type office) to the point where he would stare at them comment on their clothing and he told me once he feels like I'm his wife.. (obviously it was in a work related context not s-xual yet that still gives me the creeps) suffice it to say I left that company.

liveandlove.ima

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 10:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If I tell him something can someone help me formulate what to say?

Since you're new here I would like to address a matter before it becomes a matter. some of the women here feel uncomfortable with your friendliness as if its crossing a line, I trust you don't mean anything wrong but I assume they're just not used to men interact this way, the men here are more distanced and formal.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 10:50 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

I don't see what religious discrimination has to do with this? How was he discriminated against?

It's not religious discrimination. But it's wrongful termination. You can't fire someone immediately after a single complaint about 1 comment, that's not how it works with HR in a large corporation. Since the poster stated she heard this story on her first day of work in this large company most likely it was a piece of gossipy drama being passed around without all the background to the story, and makes sense for an impressionable new & young worker to get the wrong end of the stick and believe that's the beginning and end to the story.
In reality, a big company will look to cover themselves with documentation of warnings, retraining, and improvement plan before firing someone for 1 first time comment that is not black and white harassment. They don't want the headache of a lawsuit they have a good chance of losing.

Java

Thu, Oct 21 2021, 11:40 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

No such thing in an at-will state. You can be fired if your employee doesn't like your hair color

amother

Navyblue

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:07 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

I think you could say something like this:
"____, I'm not sure if you are aware but the environment in this office is quite formal especially when it comes to interactions between men and women. Although you may be naturally friendly and warm, women might think you're crossing boundaries and report you so please be very careful . "

This is really nicely said. I would not say there were complaints etc.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 1:43 am

little neshamala wrote:

My mother in law and her teenaged daughter, my sister in law, are always convinced that the local Jewish grocery cashiers and baggers are always making eyes at them and being suggestive, talking lewdly about them in Spanish, etc.

Every. Single. Time. I have ever been with them in a grocery store, it's "oh my goodness, did you SEE how they looked at us, he was practically drooling! Disgusting! How do they employ such people! I should talk to the manager..."

And honestly I never saw a thing. And im not naive, I do know when people are hitting on others.. but it simply wasnt happening in these cases, not at all. They were just looking to see it, as they do every time they shop.

One time I heard from my sister in law that they she sought out the manager and complained.

I just felt bad for the workers...

OP is talking about jewish men that she works with.

About the grocery workers, it really depends on what the girl looks like and if she is naturally friendly. These guys respond to that. I've seen some workers talk about the girls and make very rude signs to each other about them.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 5:11 am

If this boy is smiling and laughing, he's probably treating them the same way he treats his other bochur friends. That's the only role model he's ever had.

On the flipside, unless there's something I'm missing, I think these girls are making mountains out of molehills.

IMHO, if your sensibilities are so high that you get triggered every time you are around a person of the opposite gender, no matter how innocent or even clueless their behavior - you need to either work from home, or work in a single gender office that will keep you isolated.

It's OK if you don't want to live in the real world, but it's not OK to impose your bubble sensitivity on others. There is a huge gray area in between, but only if you actually want to do the work of finding it.

little neshamala

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 5:57 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Read my post...I was with them mutiple times and observed absolutely no response from any of the wrokers.

And my point was to show that sometimes people imagine things because thats what theyvare looking to see

amother

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 6:25 am

I think by now I've gotten the gamut of opinions on this
and I appreciate each one - thanks

Just to add my two sense after thinking about this

Apparently chasidim who live a life in adherence to halacha
[meaning not the chaisidish affiliated. the chasidish who live the chasidish lifestyle]
do not cut any corners or accept any lenient halachic
opionions in matters that pertain to the interaction between
men and woman

I beleive these girls' concern is not an HR/#metoo issue
in as much as it's a 'you should know better' 'we won't
fall for this' issue even if we need to look for work elsewhere

It's a pity because 2 out of 3 are leaving and they were solid employees. Other's willl
take their place but if this keeps happening....

amother

Sienna

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 7:04 am

cutestbaby wrote:

No such thing in an at-will state. You can be fired if your employee doesn't like your hair color

No. People can always sue for wrongful termination. Most people aren't going to bother for a dinky type job as a grocery bagger or home based business but a good job in a big fancy corporation with HR protocols in place? Sure they will. I know people who have and they ended up with a nice settlement.
That's one reason HR and their protocols are there. To protect the company.