American communities

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 1:49 am

Success10 wrote:

OP is right that with the influx of JPF olim, things will start to change. But they've still sort of invented their own little "Chareidi-lite" bubble within general Israeli society. The question still remains: how do those kids fare in the long run?

I'm just giving my own guess here, I think the kids will be ok. If there's a strong enough kehillah of like-minded people, then they will find whom to socialize with. Schools to attend. Whom to date and marry.

RBS is filled with messed up kids, no one can deny that. But who says it's a result of being misfits to society? Maybe just Americans come with more emotional baggage in general, especially the ones who chose to leave the Old Country behind, and that just trickled down to the next generation. Just food for thought.

Things will change, but only starting in areas with an anglo presence, not in general chareidi israeli society.

As for why children in RBS and other olims children struggle and can end up "messed up", I have a few theories for that, I think there's a few reasons, and it's definitely can be a combination of them.

1. I find that there's a huge amount of olim who are also BT's, and oftentimes their parents really struggle to grasp the rules of this new society, and may have went to the extreme, or misunderstands concepts within yiddishkeit. I say this as a child of BT's, and know many many BT olim.

2. The shift in society, chareidi society is VERY different than yeshivish.

3. Families sending their kids to schools that are a mismatch, because as we've posted, there's not much gray area. But the biggest part of doing this is the attitude.

Is the attitude "We asked a Rav and was told the internet is muttar for our home, I know your school holds differently, so while you are in this school you will have limited access to follow and respect the rules"

Or is the attitude "Geez what dumb rules, you can't wear x even out of school? Your school must not know halacha, they're all confused"

4. Mental illness and trauma, this affects israeli kids as well, but kids who made aliyah may be more prone to it. I also see oftentimes families make aliyah since their kids were struggling in the USA - which means their kids do have some trauma and struggles already, forget moving to a new country....

5. Parents believing the school teaches chinuch and not the home.

amother

Emerald

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 11:00 am

The idea that children raised in Anglo communities cannot integrate or find their place as adults in EY, or that their are no appropriate Hebrew teaching schools for children of olim is very outdated. This was true 20 years ago, but not for this current generation of school aged kids. The schools in RBS are generally quite good at integrating children of olim, teaching them Hebrew, while maintaining American cultural norms that are something to be proud of (softness, gentleness, etiquitte and manners, etc). In fact, many Israelis try to get into the RBS American schools!

RBS now stands for a model of what can be accomplished. I believe the political situation in the US will be the catalyst for many new Anglo communities with their own schools and cultural standards. Our children will speak Hebrew and love the kedusha of EY, and be American style yeshivish all at once. There is room for many communities of all types in our Motherland. It's happening.... And that's a wonderful thing.

amother

Emerald

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 11:03 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Agree with all your insights about why a child may not be successful with Aliyah. It is never simply the Aliyah itself. That is generally one of many stressors on the child.

imorethanamother

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 11:18 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

This is my favorite post ever.

And this whole thread is making me sad. I wish I could make aliyah!!

LovesHashem

Sat, Oct 23 2021, 8:56 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

The issue isn’t integration, it’s fitting in to a different culture and society. I said this before, if you move to RBS that’s not the issue. It’s an issue if you move to a place with a small Anglo population or no anglos at all.

Integration is an issue but it’s not the schools, it’s from reasons I mentioned above.

I say this as a teen who made aliyah with my family.

amother

Holly

Sat, Oct 23 2021, 10:38 am

I live in a heavily anglo community (apparently around 30%?). Some Olim here have no Israeli friends and all of their kids friends are English speakers as well. But I'm not one of those people. Some of my friends are olim (but not all from English speaking countries!), some have anglo parents, half of my friendships are in Hebrew, half are in English. My kids are complete sabras who speak English. But I also relate to Israeli culture myself, and I am tremendously invested in always improving my Hebrew. I have plenty of Olim friends like me, who speak Hebrew fluently enough to have long flowing conversations and build relationships in the language. I also read to my kids in Hebrew and English I think that has actually really developed their vocabulary and communication in both languages. It's possible if you believe it's important to work on it. I see the teenagers that come out of here from anglo families, and mostly they are just regular Israelis.

amother

Emerald

Mon, Oct 25 2021, 9:40 am

amother [ Blueberry ] wrote:

Batya85, are you comfortable sharing where you are moving? We are trying to find a place similar to how you describe and are wondering what is out there.

Blueberry, and anyone else interested in American style communities in Eretz Yisrael besides RBS, pleas contact Yoel Berman and Elisha Bruk at yberman613@gmail.com. they are working along Nrfesh bNefesh on exactly this area and will tell you everything that's out there. Hatzlacha!

amother

Blueberry

Mon, Oct 25 2021, 9:43 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Thanks Emerald! I've actually spoken to Yoel at length. :-)
I was hoping that someone who is actually moving can give me their perspective of what is realistic as opposed to what Yoel is hoping will evolve.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Oct 27 2021, 12:01 am

amother [ Blueberry ] wrote:

I wouldn't trust NBN's full info - they want you to make aliyah and will not help and support you afterwards with any struggles. Look into places yourself, go on a pilot trip and see them, speak to people there.

amother

Charcoal

Fri, Oct 29 2021, 12:58 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Can you explain what Torani schools look like? Do kids dress more chareidi or DL? Do they do shirut leumi or go to the army? Do they stand for sirens? Do they celebrate Yom Haatzmaut or say Hallel on it? What is their hashkafah? Are children allowed smartphones and movies? Is there rules about the dress?

Is it something someone JPF or OOT yeshivish would find to their standards, or would they feel their child is being taught they are allowed to do thing and wear things that they don't agree with?

I have nothing against DL/Torani - I myself have young children, and live in an somewhat anglo area, I am not sure where we will end up in the long run and what we will do for school yet.

Not all schools are the same but the elementary school I am familiar with is a dati leumi torani/chardal talmud torah. The kids definitely dress more like dati leumi kids but the majority have long payot. Most of the boys after go to a yeshiva tichonit but some go to more charedi places. They definitely celebrate yom haatzmaut and say hallel. No smartphones are allowed. I don't know if there is an official rule about tv and movies but it is definitely not encouraged. The only rules about dress are no shorts starting from a certain age and no characters from tv/movies on clothes (or bags). They start on rosh chodesh elul like charedi schools (not september 1st) and even on days that they have off (like erev chag) they have optional learning in school with the menahel. It is very focused on torah. There is math and science etc but nothing extra